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With the call for PTC, how many routes still have either cab signals or automatic train stop?

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Posted by Deggesty on Saturday, November 15, 2014 11:38 AM

beaulieu
 
K. P. Harrier

beaulieu (10-20):

 

From where to where by the Columbia River?  

 

 

My UP System #8 Timetable dated April 7th, 1991 says that Cab Signals are in effect from The Dalles, OR to Troutdale, OR and then from Troutdale to East Portland via the Graham Line, on the Portland Subdivision.

 

The same Employee Timetable does not list any Cab Signals on the former LA&SL.

 

UP's North Platte Subdivision from O'Fallons,NE to South Morrill, NE also has Cab Signals. This follows the North Platte River out of North Platte, NE and connects to the former C&NW Powder River connector line.

 

 

My UP TT #9 (10/25/92) shows no change from Beaulieu's observations from #8. I wish I had a newer one. I did notice that there were several sections of double track ABS on the line to Ogden. I wonder: have these been upgraded to two main track CTC in the past 22 years? Also, there is no ACS through North Platte and Rawlins. Will this have an affect on PTC installation?

Beaulieu, do  you use a magnifying glass to read the small type?

Johnny

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Posted by beaulieu on Saturday, November 15, 2014 12:34 AM

K. P. Harrier

beaulieu (10-20):

 

From where to where by the Columbia River?  

 

My UP System #8 Timetable dated April 7th, 1991 says that Cab Signals are in effect from The Dalles, OR to Troutdale, OR and then from Troutdale to East Portland via the Graham Line, on the Portland Subdivision.

 

The same Employee Timetable does not list any Cab Signals on the former LA&SL.

 

UP's North Platte Subdivision from O'Fallons,NE to South Morrill, NE also has Cab Signals. This follows the North Platte River out of North Platte, NE and connects to the former C&NW Powder River connector line.

 

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Posted by K. P. Harrier on Saturday, November 15, 2014 12:10 AM

beaulieu (10-20):

 

From where to where by the Columbia River?

 

Anyone:

 

If my recollection serves me correctly, the LA&SL (Los Angeles to Salt Lake City) had just a couple of miles of cab signals somewhere in the Nevada-Utah area.  Anybody know where?  And, is it still is in service?

 

Thanks,

 

K.P

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.

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Posted by Buslist on Thursday, November 13, 2014 8:40 AM

oltmannd

The railroads are implementing PTC as an overlay over existing signal systems, so all existing signal systems will remain.  That includes cab signalling.  NS has cab siganlling all the places PRR installed it plus it's been extended west from Pittsburgh to Cleveland.  CSX has it on the former RF&P plus where Conrail installed it on the Boston Line (Boston and Albany), plus where it was installed on the Hudson Line.  

UP has some cab sigalling - two different types - although I'm not sure how much and where.  BNSF still has a little bit of inductive train stop on former ATSF territory, plus some cab signalling in Metra territory on the  CB&Q racetrack.

 

 

BTW I don't agree that all cab signal systems will remain with PTC. Yes PTC is utilizing current signal systems (primarily the track circuits) for train location, to insure that the rear end of the train is out of the way. But in most cases cab signals etc. are an add on to that system. FRA is permitting the discontinuance of ATS ATC etc. if included in the PTC implementation plan. Reference 236.0 (e).

So unless we have access to the individual plans, or knowledgeable folks from the roads affected it's hard to know! But why a road would want to hold on to an expensive - redundant (to PTC) system if they don't have to is beyond me.

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Posted by ETHOVER on Tuesday, October 21, 2014 6:47 PM

The entire FEC is ATC equipped. 

 

Eric 

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Posted by Deggesty on Monday, October 20, 2014 9:53 PM

Thanks, Carl. For some reason I was thinking that the old-timey maps in the Guide showed more lines with ATC--and I just looked at a fifties issue, and only the line to Omaha showed it.

Johnny

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Posted by CShaveRR on Monday, October 20, 2014 9:14 PM

No ATC, Johnny, just ATS.  The line out west is the only one that had ATC.

Carl

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Posted by Deggesty on Monday, October 20, 2014 12:12 PM

Carl, I think it was in '78 when I made a trip to Harvard and back (like the one we took to Antioch and back last year), and as we were going back in, we had to stop at a signal (I, of course, was sanding and looking ahead), and the engineer made a comment about the system not working right. Wasn't there ATC on that line then? Has it been deactivated?

Johnny

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Posted by beaulieu on Monday, October 20, 2014 12:02 PM

UP also has cab signals on their line along the Columbia River in Oregon.

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Posted by CShaveRR on Monday, October 20, 2014 9:41 AM

The Automatic Train stop in CNW territory is in service from Chicago to Kenosha and from Chicago to Harvard, Illinois, the limits of Metra operation.

The portion of the North Line from Lake Bluff to Kenosha also has UP-style coded cab signals.  This makes unnecessary the addition of an ATS-equipped unit on the Oak Creek coal trains.

Carl

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CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)

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Posted by jeffhergert on Monday, October 20, 2014 8:44 AM

UP has on the old CNW, Automatic Train Control/cab signals Chicago to Council Bluffs IA.  There is some Automatic Train Stop north of Chicago on one of the lines to Wisconsin.

On the original UP, cab signals are used from Omaha to Ogden UT.  Cab signals are also used from Topeka to Gibbon Jct (junction with the Omaha-Ogden route) and on a branch line in NE Kansas that's used as a route for empty coal trains.

The old IC had some cab signal/ATS in Iowa, but it was deactivated (subdivision converted to CTC at the same time) around 10 +/- years ago.

Metra in Chicago still has cab signals on ex RI trackage to Joliet.  In RI days, the cab signals extended to Rock Island IL.  When the IAIS first started, they had one engine equipped with cab signals to lead in this territory.  My understanding is that for many years now, they have a waiver to operate without a cab signal equipped engine.  They operate on way side signals with an absolute block.    

Jeff

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Posted by oltmannd on Monday, October 20, 2014 7:17 AM

The railroads are implementing PTC as an overlay over existing signal systems, so all existing signal systems will remain.  That includes cab signalling.  NS has cab siganlling all the places PRR installed it plus it's been extended west from Pittsburgh to Cleveland.  CSX has it on the former RF&P plus where Conrail installed it on the Boston Line (Boston and Albany), plus where it was installed on the Hudson Line.  

UP has some cab sigalling - two different types - although I'm not sure how much and where.  BNSF still has a little bit of inductive train stop on former ATSF territory, plus some cab signalling in Metra territory on the  CB&Q racetrack.

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

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With the call for PTC, how many routes still have either cab signals or automatic train stop?
Posted by Electroliner 1935 on Saturday, October 18, 2014 5:01 PM

In the 1950's, I worked for the Pennsylvana RR on the Buckeye Region. From Indianapolis east, the main line through Pittsburg had cab signals. Much of that route is a trail and part is the Ohio Central RR. Many railroads installed signal systems that permitted speeds greater than 79mph. Many of these systems have been removed. I have been wondering with the advent of PTC, how many of the older systems are still in operation? 

 

 

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