Best Passenger service ever in the USA

[daveklepper]

The NYNH&H and the D&RGW were my favorite railroads for many reasons, and the one train trip I would most want to recreate is certainly the California Zephyr, but I would rate the AT&SF as tops in the passenger service I experience, all things considered. What do you think?

[passengerfan]

Best in the west AT&SF, CB&Q, GN and NP strange that makes up todays BNSF.
Best In the east ACL, SAL, SOU and B&O
All of the above did their best where passengers were concerned right up to Amtrak. Probably the two outstanding western examples are GN and AT&SF not necessarily in that order. Why do I say that.
GN built five all new 12 car trains sets for the EMPIRE BUILDER in 1947 then added all new fifteen car replacements in 1951 with a sixth consist of the 1947 train built at that time to become the Western Star. Then in 1955 they added three Great Dome Coaches and a great Dome Lounge to each Empire Builder putting more passengers in dome seats then any ather pre-Auto-Train in America. They also gave streamlined trains to the Seattle-Vancouver route and Grand Forks - St. Paul route. Semi streamlined trains operated between St. Paul and the Twin Ports, and the Winnipeg Ltd. between St. Paul and Winnipeg were eventually streamlined as well using former Empire Builder and Western Star cars.
The Santa Fe began streamlining before WW II with six CHIEFS, two SUPER CHIEFS, two EL CAPITANS, two SAN DIEGANS, two GOLDEN GATES, and a CHICAGOAN /KANSAS CITYAN. Following the war they went to daily streamlined SUPER CHIEFS six sets of equipment, daily EL CAPITANS six sets of equipment and added new TEXAS CHIEFS four sets of equipment, KANSAS CITY CHIEFS two sets of equipment and later all new HI-Level El CAPITANS with six sets of equipment entered service as did the all new SAN FRANCISCO CHIEF six sets of equipment and domes operated at one time or another in the EL CAPITANS, SUPER CHIEFS CHIEFS, CHICAGOAN, KANSAS CITYAN, SAN FRANCISCO CHIEFS, and TEXAS CHIEFS.

[eolafan]

Interesting that if you ask the same question of commuter services, I also come up with the BNSF (old Q) service between Aurora and Chicago, IL. In most years their on time record is somewhere in the high 90% range...their trains are clean and fast, their track condition provides a nice smooth ride, a real pleasure to ride on them.

[AntonioFP45]

Hmmmmmmmm.

Anyone think about the Hiawathas?

[tree68]

QUOTE: Originally posted by AntonioFP45

Hmmmmmmmm.
Anyone think about the Hiawathas?

Like Mark said - it's subjective. I would imagine that riding any railroad's top name train(s) during the golden age would have been a pleasant experience. If the proof is in the transition years leading up to Amtrak, then passengerfan's comments are probably pretty much on the mark.

[espeefoamer]

SANTA FE ALL THE WAY!
[bow] [bow] [bow] [bow] [bow]

[jeaton]

Antonio

All the time.

Jay

[Anonymous]

I still remember the starched sheets in the NYC Pullmans...

LC

[Anonymous]

Santa Fe Super Chief is my favorite. But many celebrities rode Union Pacific, so I assume it was an awsome railroad.

[Anonymous]

Permit me to say this about that....
If anyone asks me this question I have to answer with "The Twentieth Century Limited" on the NYC. Looking at the service from an outside point of view with respect to top name hotels and restaurants of the era, and with the clients it served, The Century gets my number one spot. This followed closely by the "Super Chief" for the same reasons.

Back to the Century for a moment. I use this as an example when discussing the future of passenger service with folks on the outside. "Can you imagine being able to walk a few blocks from the office, step right onto the train at 4pm, watch the city skyline receed with a cocktail in hand in the observation car, go to a diner whose decor is equal to the finest restaurants of the day, have a dinner with equally great cuisine, step to the lounge for an evening of good company, go to your room for the night, awaken along the Hudson River, go to the train barber for a shower and shave, have breakfast, and be off the train in NYC by 9am. With NO conflicting train movements or situations taking priority over the train's operation. That, to me, was railroading's finest hour.

A coment on the "Q's" commuter service. It's the un-sung hero of the commuting world. Without a doubt the best run service of its type. This includes scheduling, cleanliness, comfort, speed, and timely performance. These traditions were laid down a long time ago and they stuck. If Amtrak were to go and the country was looking for a replacement operating mind-set. I'd vote for the BNSF commutation team of managers.
Mitch

[Anonymous]

One more thing...Service and operation of sleeping cars by The PULLMAN Company was consistent, and good all over the country. It's sad to know that when the NYC added coaches to The Century in '58 with the trains combination with The Commodore Vanderbilt, the NYC terminated its contract with PULLMAN. After that the sleeping car service on te NYC was that of the carrier.
When I rate passenger trains in my mind from time to time I take into consideration the trains total consist, variety of services, i.e. Diner and menu selections, Coffee Shop, Tavern and Lounge service, interior decor, and scheduling.
Mitch

[gbrewer]

artmark,

Pullman service all over the country was taken over by the carriers. It wasn't their idea; Pullman was required to divest itself of either the sleeping car operations or the car building business by the US Justice Department and a consent decree. By that late date, they had an easy decision to make.

[Modelcar]

...That all sounds like a very desireable atmosphere for the NYC Century...I wonder if The Broadway Limited qualified up to near that point.....I'm old enough to remember, but never rode neither.

[BaltACD]

So everyone discounts today's Acela Service on Amtraks NEC.

Fast, Frequent

That is PASSENGER service. Todays passenger wants to get THERE and he wants to go in HIS schedule. That is passenger service today.

All the choices of yesteryear are admirable, but yesteryear ended years ago.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by gbrewer

artmark,

Pullman service all over the country was taken over by the carriers. It wasn't their idea; Pullman was required to divest itself of either the sleeping car operations or the car building business by the US Justice Department and a consent decree. By that late date, they had an easy decision to make.

The PULLMAN Company was purchased by the carriers after divestiture. The PULLMAN Company was still a seperate orginazation until its closing on December 31st of '68. In the same manner that 14 or so railroads bought the Illinois Terminal. The IT remained a seperate company.
The PULLMAN Company still being seperate leased their cars from the carriers, maintained them for the services they ran on, employeed the attendants, conductors, chefs (attendants KW), waiters and bus boys. Revenues earned from the sale of space and PULLMAN provided food and beverages went to the PULLMAN Co. until their closing in '68. PULLMAN provided the linens, china, glassware, etc. When you traveled in sleeping car space you bought a railroad ticket for transportation, and you still purchased a PULLMAN ticket for accomodations. The service rendered was still in the long standing spirit of The PULLMAN Company. When you traveled on the B&O's National Limited in the early '60s, and used sleeping car service, you payed PULLMAN for the space, and for your meals in the observation car. The B&O contracted with PULLMAN to provide restaurant service on that train.
In 1958 The NYC completely severed their relationship with PULLMAN and thereby assumed the administration and operation of the entire realm of services, and directly employeed the staff used for sleeping car and lounge service formerly provided by PULLMAN.

A similar situation happened with the Pennsy. In 1956 the PRR terminated their contract with PULLMAN for providing parlor, and restaurant parlor service. At that time the PRR assumed the complete staffing and provisions for tht service and terminated the leases of parlor equipment operated by PULLMAN on PRR lines. In the spring of '67 the PRR severed the remaining PULLMAN contracts for sleeping car service in prelude to the PC merger. Therefore, when the Broadway ran its last, it was an all-sleeping car train, not an all-Pullman train.
Mitch

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BaltACD

So everyone discounts today's Acela Service on Amtraks NEC.

Fast, Frequent

That is PASSENGER service. Todays passenger wants to get THERE and he wants to go in HIS schedule. That is passenger service today.

All the choices of yesteryear are admirable, but yesteryear ended years ago.

I believe the question asks what our opinion of the top services ever was. This implies the past where the services in many of our opinions and experiences dictate those references. I like Acela. For the same reasons you point out. HOWEVER...It's operation can be embarassing at times with delays, and I feel as an old timer that a First Class seat is a single, revolving, reclining chair, one on each side of the aisle, and a diner with real cuisine. I can remember when I was on the CNW, before Amtrak, that if you caused a delay of any sort to an intercity train, you had to answer in-depth about it. And the CNW hated passenger trains. But they felt that service was still a reflection on their management. Now a days delays are acceptable to a degree and therefore Acela can't, in my opinion, rate as tops. Good, but not great. It does have the potential for being great but there's a lot more, parlor chairs and diner excluded, that must go into it.
Mitch

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Modelcar

...That all sounds like a very desireable atmosphere for the NYC Century...I wonder if The Broadway Limited qualified up to near that point.....I'm old enough to remember, but never rode neither.

When coaches were added to the Century accomodations better than bedrooms, i.e. compartments and drawing rooms also began to disappear from the train. So a lot of clientel used to the exclusivity of the Century drifted over to the Pennsy and the Broadway. Now I'm a big fan of the Pennsy, and I liked the Broadway. But in terms of merely sofistication, I feel the Century inched ahead of the Broadway just a scootch. If it was 1953, and I was making a round trip to Manhattan, I would have gone out on one, and return on the other. The fact that you could have breakfast in either one of the Broadway's lounges, mid-train or observation, always intrigued me. To the Broadway's credit, the Broadway, to the end, provided 6 varieties of accomodations. Roomette, duplex single room, double bedrooms, compartments, drawing rooms, and the master rooms in the Obs Car with the showers. The Century-Broadway comparisons are varied and never ending. The clientel of the Century was filled with entertainment personalities, that of the Broadway, with its No. Phili stop, tended to be the stars of the financial world. So this all is subjective. The timely operation of trains 28 & 29 was as important to the Pennsy as the operation trains 25 & 26 were to the NYC. The fabled pair are the top 2 on my list but the number 1 spot goes to NYC 25 & 26, with Pennsy 28 & 29 closely following the Century's markers.
Mitch

[Anonymous]

SOUTHERN PACIFIC!!!!!!
Even though im not old enough to know, my grandpa rode it and he said it was comfortable[^]

[PwdOpd]

As Mr. Hemphill says, it's a very sujective topic. However, let me ask this, why is it no one even mentioned the U.P.? Having worked for the U.P. way back when-1948 to 1955-let me suggest they ran a pretty good railroad with some great trains. Working as an interchage clerk during the hours of 11p to 7a, I saw all the City Streamliners, both east and westbound. The eastbounds were relegiously on time, most of the time, 8 to 10 minutes early. Later in life I lived in South Dakota and on one occasion, took the Milwaukee from Aberdeen to Chicago. Local to Minneapolis, but the Morning Hiawatha to Chicago. The ride was smooth and on time to the minute. Later we lived in Huchinson, Kansas, and I had the opportunity to ride the Chief. Now remember, this would have been in the late sixties, but the Chief was never on time either direction. I rode it three or four times to Chicago and back - never on time. Rode it west to Lamar, Colorado, late. Rode it from Albuquerque to Hutchinson, guess what? - Late. Everyone has their own opinion, and every railroad had their good and bad days, so take everything that is said with a grain of salt. Paul

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by PwdOpd

As Mr. Hemphill says, it's a very sujective topic. However, let me ask this, why is it no one even mentioned the U.P.?

The 10th post mentions the U.P.
That's a good point. I thought the dome diners were a great feature. Perfectly matched sets of ABBBA E units were a fabulous sight. The trains were all clean. In my opinion, the fact that the City o' Portland / City o' Denver, and the City of LA / SF were combined trains out of Chicago and had to be cut along the way makes it hard for me to visualize the singular personalities of the various U.P. trains. This doesn't mean the service wasn't great, it merely means that I tend not to think of the service account this one prejudice. I was not a fan of U.P. interiors post-war. The whole thing was just a little too plain for me personally.
Mitch

[PwdOpd]

To Artmark: I was long gone before they started to combine the City trains. How service was then, I do not know. I only knew how they did 1947 to 1955, and then it really was one of the best. Paul

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by PwdOpd

To Artmark: I was long gone before they started to combine the City trains. How service was then, I do not know. I only knew how they did 1947 to 1955, and then it really was one of the best. Paul

Ya know I wish I had ridden more UP trains. I wasn't around until 1950 so I can only remember the dome car era. I worked as a fireman for about a year on the CNW Galena Division. All the older engineers I had worked with remembered working the Cities Trains, and spoke of them with fondness. One of the gateman at North Western Station was a former dining car steward. He told me great stories about those trains. He said west of Omaha he would walk up to the engine with a whole pie and coffee for the engine crew. The engineer and fireman would sit on the left hand side eating, and the dining car steward would run the engine.
I'm sure the UP trains were right up there at the top, but from what I know and like, as the world relates to Mitch, I'd have to put the UP trains 5 or 6 times out from the top.

After visiting this thread over the last day I've thought of a brief list:
Century/Broadway (Theye're tied)
Super Chief
The Yankee Clipper of 1930 and the Merchants Limited (All parlor car PULLMAN operatde)
The Panama Limited (Clean and crisp to the end)
The Twin Cities 400 (Great consist and car layout for daytime train)
The Daylight (As good as the 400, but I worked for the CNW, and only could fantasize what a date with a California girl would be like, and I'm not tall)
The UP Cities Trains (It was the Es and the Dome diner that was UP's "Ohio" in this election, but the obs car was in the middle)
The Denver Zephyr (What a clean, colorful, well laid out and fast train it was with great food)
The Hiawatha (Fast, Super Dome, Skytop parlor, friendly crews)
North Shore's Electroliner (5 a day each way, punctual, fast, convenient, and had a tavern lounge. The North Shore sold and accepted interline tickets so they're in this game. Imagine Acela leaving New York on the Flushing Line and you'd have today's 'Liner)

Mitch

[jcavinato]

My vote is for B&O Royal Blue, parlor car service (which included the observation car) from Jersey City to Washington, DC.

[joesap1]

Mitch has made a good case for his rating of the trains in his last reply, but I what I liked about traveling on the trains when the railroads ran them was the people you met. The passengers, by and large, were friendly and easy to get to know.
The most important part, as I have written elsewhere, was the crew in those days. I recently rode the Amtrak and except for a couple of crew members, they were all grouches. When I rode UP's City trains in the sixities, the crew would keep me in stitches with their stories that they shared during their off duty hours.
I really enjoyed filling out your meal order card in the dining car, too. I had never done anything like that in non-railroad restaurants.
Oh well, you can't live in the past and hindsight is always 20-20. But I still love passenger trains!

[daveklepper]

I liked the UP. But the SF had little touches. At one time the Super Chief had decent wired music in the roomettes and bedrooms and master rooms. And multiple channels to choose from. And having ridden both the Super and the Century, I would say they are equivalent except that one could get one's pants pressed on the Century in the all-sleeper days, but the barber had been taken off before I rode it. But the Satne Fe's excellence extended to all their passenger trains. The NYC had some pretty miserable excuses for passenger service. The New England States had fine equipment and good food, but it was always late into Boston, never once did I arrive on schedule. And it got worse when the put CTC on the B&A and single-tracked it! I liked the dome diner on the UP's City of LA and they did provide good service on all their trains up to the end, like the SF, but the SF was just a bit better in small but significant ways. Again, the D&RGW and NYNH&H are my two favorite railroads for a number of good reasons, but I cannot say that the passenger service compared with the AT&SF overall. The Pennsy? Broadway was pretty great right up to the end, but otherwise we used to call it "The Big Red Subway." It WAS a lot better than the NYC in general with regard to on-time performance right up to the merger. May be I shouldn't pick on the NYC to much they did have snow, afterall. But so did a lot of the others, like the GN and NP.