NS restricted on double stacks

[blue streak 1]

This may not apply to NS but CSX has an intermodal that passes here with mostly single stacks.  After this thread was started it became apparent that  all the single levels were U-Max or international containers.   Can they be loaded much heavier ?  Could it be that these containers loaded would exceed the load limits of the well car if stacked ?  Note this CSX train does have some double stacks mixed in.

[daveklepper]

Paul. as you know already, coal trains did regularly go to the LIRR through Penn Sta. during WWII with old reliable DD-1's as the power.  But today, Amtrak and LIRR need the down-time 1 - 5 AM for daily maintenance and inspection.  I suspect most nights see single-track operation of the Hudson side.

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

Yeah, I thought you'd find those presentations to be interesting !   

Harrisburg became a distribution center/ hub for the Middle Atlantic states - and even some of the NorthEast - back during the heyday of the old PRR in the 1950's and 1960's.  Both John Kneiling (Trains' "Professional Iconoclast" columnist and author) and John Armstrong (Model Railroader track planning guru) commented on it from time to time. 

Fogelsville/ Breinigsville about 6 miles west of Allentown/ 20 miles west of Bethlehem started taking over that function in the 1960's and 1970's, no doubt because of the better road network then developing there, and being about 1-1/2 to 2 hours closer.

Bethlehem and the surrounding area didn't start into that until the late 1990's and 2000's, when the demise of Bethlehem Steel and some other large industries left a void that needed to be filled.  Plus, I-78 just south of Bethlehem to the east to NJ and NY, etc. wasn't completed until 1988 or 1989, so that delayed or triggered the boom after that. And the 4-lane PA 33 and its bridge over the Lehigh River from I-78 to the north wasn't completed until around 2002, IIRC.  In the meantime, I-78 from Harrisburg has become overcrowded, beat down, and prone to congestion delays at both ends, and the PA Turnpike I-76 likewise plus very expensive tolls, so Harrisburg has lost a lot of its luster (plus those warehouses are now antiquated and much smaller than the state-of-the-art).    

Today I took a quick drive through the Bethlehem / Lehigh Valley Industrial Park VII / Majestic Commerce Center on old Bethlehem Steel land east of PA Rt. 412 and north of I-78 (N 40 36.564' W 75 19.232' - see also http://www.lvip.org/available-land and http://www.majesticrealty.com/projects/majestic-bethlehem-center ).  This is mostly on the other side of Commerce Drive from the LV Rail management intermodal terminal (http://www.lehighvalleyrailmanagementllc.com/services.html - you may have been there when you visited like 3 years ago ?).  My God, the number of huge new warehouses since I was last there, less than a year ago - 2 are Wal-Marts, the others are various names.  A long rail siding lead track also parallels Commerce Drive on the north side - but no spurs or sidings to the buildings, and no sign of usage - it's just a marketing ornament, methinks.  One of the marketing signs has a 'bullet point' that "Heavy containers allowed" - in other words, because Commerce Drive is a private road, a container could be loaded to its maximum allowable weight (67,000+ lbs., as I recall), and hauled legally on the interior industrial park roads to/ from the intermodal terminal, since it would not have to run on a weight-limited public road.  This is one advantageous and super-efficient feature about containerization and modern operations that John Kneiling (see above) advocated in his articles and book about Integral Train Systems.         

A close friend who recently helped IDI get approval for an 822,500 sq. ft. warehouse a little further east (Easton area - see: http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/nazareth/index.ssf/2014/10/lower_nazareth_township_superv_3.html ) said that warehouses are the hot item for real estate development in this area. 

I'd like to see those "filleted" (single-stack) NS Intermodals go through the Amtrak tunnels to NYC and Long Island as well - but that's not going to happen until there's more tunnel capacity and track tiome to share - at least 10 years away.

- Paul North.   

[MP173]

Paul:

Thank you for the links.  Darrell Wilson's presentation was very informative, even without commentary.  One can see how the recent investments NS has made will allow participation in the intermodal markets, particularly from Memphis to the Northeast...if they can establish decent schedules.  Also, the comparison of deliveries to various ports was informative.  While the Panama Canal will open more ports, the transit delays will be real and thus the value of products moved will tend to be lower....at least in a normal interest rate environment.

Since the NS meltdown 6 weeks ago I have been monitoring their operations on the ex Conrail line at Porter (CP482) and operations seem to be returning to normal.

What I find incredible is the amount of stack business moving to / from Harrisburg.  If I recall you once told me that Harrisburg/Bethlehem have developed as the distribution centers for the NYC-Philly region.  For instance, yesterday's 26T had 230 international and domestic containers...with over 130 being JBHunt.  26N, running a few minutes earlier had over 150 domestic and international containers with nearly 50% JBH.  On certain trains with a mix of international and domestic, it seems JBH containers are the only domestic containers.

What I have noticed is NS is running considerably more TOFC units than CSX.  Perhaps that is based on their Triple Crown heritage.  While there are more UPS containers showing up, the hot trains are still handling a high percentage of UPS trailers.  

A train I suspected was 24M (Baltimore) just passed an hour ago...this is a regular 6-7am passage of TOFC and single stacks.  Of the 84 units at least 30 were UPS.  Where are those UPS trailers going?  Is there that much parcel business for Washington DC?  Probably.

Just a few comments.

 

Ed

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

For a map of NS Doublestack clearances and a diagram, see slides 21 and 22 of 26 (approx. 5.5 MB total electronic file size) of this Nov. 2006 PowerPoint presentation by an NS official:

"Markets, Transportation Markets, Market Change and Transportation Policy;
and The Economics of Rail"

http://indianalogistics.com/summit/2006/ppt/Rob_Martinez.ppt or

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=10&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CF8QFjAJ&url=http%3A%2F%2Findianalogistics.com%2Fsummit%2F2006%2Fppt%2FRob_Martinez.ppt&ei=iTNcVOWVFpClyQTwnILABg&usg=AFQjCNG4oy7zUk4xKbk2KjFO2dRd8hNJhQ&sig2=M8RSy9y-zwHcoAAz7pYD-A 

While looking for the above, I also found this presentation on related matters from Dec. 2012, revised July 2014, which is extremely interesting (48 slides, approx. 9.5 MB electronic file size):

"Transportation Planning at Norfolk Southern"

by Darrell Wilson, AVP Government Relations

http://rail.transportation.org/SiteCollectionDocuments/Freight%20Planning%20and%20MAP%20-%2021.pptx or

 http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CDoQFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Frail.transportation.org%2FSiteCollectionDocuments%2FFreight%2520Planning%2520and%2520MAP%2520-%252021.pptx&ei=xjpcVNjSDo2gyATakYKwAw&usg=AFQjCNEgubLszWjWczRZkKzsRvc6DLfesQ&sig2=FrlGh0x5CmjU2RNXzTTitw

- Paul North. 

[nyc#25]

  There are many, many double stack trains running throgh

Pennsylvania on the NS every day of the week.

[DTomajko]

Doublestacks are allowed on NS through PA to Harrisburg & into Allentown & New Jersey. As of now, stacks aren't allowed to Baltimore via Harrisburg. The single level trains you see are premium trains carrying UPS, Fed Ex, reefers, & some Hunt. Trains 22W,24M,21J & 21E are some NS premium symbols. Though 22W carries stacks from Pittsburgh east to Jersey & New York.

[beaulieu]

Doublestacks can't access the Port of Philadelphia or use the Port Road, but they can be loaded at Morrisville. 

[duanecmiller]

The tunnels at Gallitzin were rebuilt to permit double stacks while under Conrail ownership.

[MidlandMike]

Perhaps there are some restricted routes east of Harrisburgh.

[caldreamer]

When Norfolk Southern rebuilt the tunnels at Galitzen they built them with enough clearance for duble stacks.  I believe they cut the tunnels to 22 feet in height.

[Convicted One]

If one runs a search at Youtube using the criteria "doublestack horse shoe curve", it appears there are a number of videos suggesting that they do go thru. 

[MP173]

Is NS restricted on double stacks on their route thru Pennsylvania?

I see various trains that are either completedly single stack or trailers, or primarily are.

 

Ed