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Capitlism may be the cause of the grain train car shortage

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Posted by DSchmitt on Wednesday, October 8, 2014 1:11 AM

 

 

 

railtrail

Talked to m6y freinds at a comaod trading company and they told me that private rr car owners baught up the rr cars and horded them for the highest price for last winter

 

 

Cars that are not being used are not making any money for their owners. Also storing and maintaing them is a cost and there are other costs to ownership as well.  The "benefit" of higher prices when used could be more than offset by the costs when they are not used. 

Another possibility:  There are also costs when using the cars.  These costs could exceed the costs of storing them.  Given the economic situation, even with the revenue from using the cars, the bottom line could be worse using them than storing them. If this is the case the companys should probably cut their losses, saell or scrap the cars,  and get out of the business.

 

I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.

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Posted by railtrail on Tuesday, October 7, 2014 3:14 PM

http://intermodalsolutionsgroup.com.au/simulated-loading-process/simulated-loading-process

one of many ways to use containers for bulk grain shipping

 

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Tuesday, October 7, 2014 10:00 AM

railtrail

Well there was enough reason in Canada for Alberta and the Canadian Grain Board had socialised the Grain Car Supply and in some effect they still do that. Here in the US Ethonal is taking up the supply and slower oil trains holding up the line.

The two major Canadian railroads justifiably refused to invest in covered hoppers for grain service since they were stuck with non-compensatory grain rates under the Crows Nest Pass Act.  As a result, the Canadian Wheat Board and the provinces of Alberta and Saskatchewan bought covered hoppers to lease for grain service.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by Deggesty on Tuesday, October 7, 2014 9:43 AM

railtrail

Mike Omeara traffic manager for Feed Ingreadiate Trading

 

Are you able to translate this into English?

Johnny

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Posted by railtrail on Monday, October 6, 2014 7:59 PM

Well there was enough reason in Canada for Alberta and the Canadian Grain Board had socialised the Grain Car Supply and in some effect they still do that. Here in the US Ethonal is taking up the supply and slower oil trains holding up the line.

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Posted by railtrail on Monday, October 6, 2014 7:53 PM

Mike Omeara traffic manager for Feed Ingreadiate Trading

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Posted by railtrail on Monday, October 6, 2014 7:50 PM

http://www.feedcorp.com/feed-ingredient/staff/ source for quote on rr car shortage.

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Posted by Rader Sidetrack on Monday, October 6, 2014 7:45 PM

You certainly don't need a "facility" to load grain in boxcars! A portable auger will work just fine ...

Photo Credit

 Poke the delivery end of the auger over the temporary boxcar door and fill-er-up.

Unloading without a specialized facility is not quite as simple, but a vacuum system could be established relatively easily. After all, vacuum trucks are used to clean up spilled grain at derailments.

 

My suggestion of floorloading grain on boxcar floors was not meant to be an economic competitor to the current practice of unit trains of hopper cars - it was meant to point out there are always alternatives.

If you really need to ship your grain NOW, and want to do so in hopper cars, just outbid everyone else for BNSF's next Certificate of Transportation auction.  After all, money talks! Devil

 

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Monday, October 6, 2014 7:07 AM

Shipping grain in boxcars has pretty much gone the way of the Railway Post Office.  The last regular grain shipments in boxcars were to the port of Churchill, MN, mostly because the track couldn't support the weight of loaded covered hoppers.  Shipping grain in boxcars is labor-intensive and inefficient, losses from leakage are also an issue.  I doubt that there are any facilities still set up to load or unload grain in boxcars.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by Rader Sidetrack on Friday, October 3, 2014 5:57 PM

If you want to ship some grain via railroad, you are not limited to hopper cars, railroad owned or otherwise.

You can ship grain in a boxcar.  The old way was to put in a temporary barrier across the lower part of the doorway and load the grain  right onto the boxcar floor.  I don't know why you couldn't still do that today. Stick out tongue Other options of shipping grain in boxcars include putting grain in those pallet sized bins, or sacking the grain and stacking sacks on pallets.

If none of those options appeals to you, you can always buy your own hopper car(s). If there is truly a scarce supply of hopper cars, then the [rent] price to rent it out to others in the same situation will be high. Rent out your hopper car and over time make back the cost of the car + a profit. Do that with enough cars and you just might become a millionaire. THAT is capitalism!  Mischief Big Smile

 

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Posted by beaulieu on Friday, October 3, 2014 12:51 PM

The railroads are the largest owners of grain hopper cars collectively, though GE Capital is the largest single owner. After that you come to the large grain dealers, Cargill, ADM, ConAgra, etc. If you are an Elevator company not part of one of the big companies, then you most likely ship using railroad owned cars. Small grain dealers don't normally lease railcars, but a few do so. Southern Illinois Railcar Leasing (SIRX) is a supplier to smaller shippers.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Friday, October 3, 2014 10:01 AM

If the grain elevator has to lease covered hoppers in order to ship, he probably has a choice of several leasing companies from which to obtain said equipment.  No antitrust issues there.  He might even get a better rail rate because the railroad doesn't have to provide the cars.  Of course, the elevator owner probably has to compete with a multitude of other shippers to obtain cars unless he chooses to own and maintain his own equipment.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by railtrail on Friday, October 3, 2014 8:54 AM

Basicaly when i ship UPS I go to the UPS store and get a UPS box and ship that box UPS. (who may or may not put it on a train. If I have grain I should get a grain car and stuff it with grain and go. But if someone has baught up the grain cars how is that fair? The STB board and antitrust should kick in. However what does the railroad do? If its transportation thats one thing. You cant start a auto company if the big 3 auto companys own all the railroad cars.

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Posted by edblysard on Thursday, October 2, 2014 10:59 PM
Hey, Trailmix,
Capitalism is the reason the grain cars, and the grain business, exists in the first place.
I do have a link you might be interested in though…
 

23 17 46 11

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Posted by tree68 on Thursday, October 2, 2014 8:14 PM

Paul_D_North_Jr
In response to the other posts/ comments: Are railtrail's spelling and syntax errors about the same, too ?  Normally I don't point out that kind of thing (this isn't an English usage forum), but the Original Post on this thread here was pretty bad in that regard - was it even casually reviewed after being typed and before posting, or was any thought given to it ?

By definition, if you don't know what you're looking for, you won't know when you find it.  Which says a lot about how some folks handle spelling and grammar on the web....  

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Posted by Paul_D_North_Jr on Thursday, October 2, 2014 7:56 PM

BaltACD
Class 1's have been doing their best to get out of the car supply business and put it in the hands of private owner/leasor's for a number of years.  Carrier investment needed for cars can thereby be used for other purposes.

That's what John Kneiling often advocated, too: Let the users/ shippers buy and own the cars, so they can look out for their own needs and interests, and not be dependent on (or saddle) the railroads with that responsibility.  No car, no shipment.

In response to the other posts/ comments: Are railtrail's spelling and syntax errors about the same, too ?  Normally I don't point out that kind of thing (this isn't an English usage forum), but the Original Post on this thread here was pretty bad in that regard - was it even casually reviewed after being typed and before posting, or was any thought given to it ?

- Paul North.      

"This Fascinating Railroad Business" (title of 1943 book by Robert Selph Henry of the AAR)
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Posted by schlimm on Thursday, October 2, 2014 6:37 PM

NorthWest

Based on simular posting styles representing similar content and geographical position, as well as the name, the OP seems a lot like OhioRiverTrail.

 

I concur.

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Posted by NorthWest on Thursday, October 2, 2014 6:18 PM

Based on simular posting styles representing similar content and geographical position, as well as the name, the OP seems a lot like OhioRiverTrail.

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Posted by jrbernier on Thursday, October 2, 2014 5:17 PM

Troll Alert!

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Posted by Mookie on Thursday, October 2, 2014 5:02 PM

I have another headache....Blindfold

She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw

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Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, October 2, 2014 4:18 PM

Class 1's have been doing their best to get out of the car supply business and put it in the hands of private owner/leasor's for a number of years.  Carrier investment needed for cars can thereby be used for other purposes.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Capitlism may be the cause of the grain train car shortage
Posted by railtrail on Wednesday, October 1, 2014 9:35 PM

Talked to m6y freinds at a comaod trading company and they told me that private rr car owners baught up the rr cars and horded them for the highest price for last winter

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