EL Cutoff

[Anonymous]

I was just wondering is the Erie Lackawana Cut-off still sapose to start running in 2006? Because they still got a lot of work ahead of them.

[rrnut282]

Who was supposed to be using it and where?

[Anonymous]

New Jersey Transit in NJ and PA. I'm guessing 2010, 2006 is too soon IMO. Too bad we won't be able to take photos.

[trainfan1221]

The cutoff project is currently under attack by NIMBYS, who for some reason think it will be used to haul garbage thru their backyards. The garbage into this area uses the CSX main, and I doubt that transit will be looking to start much in the way of freight business on their rails. This project has beeen put off so many times it isn't even funny anymore. The ironic part I always thought was that even though it will be used to haul passengers, it was originally built to more or less avoid everything. Doesn't really run through anyplace too significant. The Paulinskill bridge, however, has had work done on it.

[Overmod]

rrnut, this is one of the more magnificent accomplishments of 20th-Century railroad engineering, the Lackawanna Cutoff. From the same era that brought you the Nicholson (Tunkhannock) Viaduct.

My father's family has ties to the Scranton/Wilkes-Barre area from before there was a Pennsylvania... but I still find it a bit surprising that there's a 'need' for a super railroad between there and New York!

Official NJT propaganda about this project here:

http://www.njtransit.com/an_cp_project019.shtml

Erie-Lackawanna fan lists have, of course, reported oodles of detail (and probably still do).

I don't see any possible way this would be ready in 2006, short of a Manhattan Project style effort, particularly given the milestone structure on NJT's site... and lack of updating to it. Can't tell you if the economy and oil shortage hinder or help the strength with which this project gets pursued. (But I CAN tell you that excursions behind 3713 would have a whole new glory over that ROW!)

[trainfan1221]

You"re right, Overmod. Too much work for it to be done anytime soon. Supposedly it had to be officially condemned first for Transit to even get it. Conrail of course wanted to make sure it was never used again.

[ajmiller]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Overmod
My father's family has ties to the Scranton/Wilkes-Barre area from before there was a Pennsylvania...

That's impressive, considering that Pennsylvania was chartered in 1681!

[tree68]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ajmiller

QUOTE: Originally posted by Overmod
My father's family has ties to the Scranton/Wilkes-Barre area from before there was a Pennsylvania...

That's impressive, considering that Pennsylvania was chartered in 1681!

Well, my family has roots on this continent dating back into the mid-1600's. So it's not that unusual...

[Overmod]

Don't know if you're familiar with Connecticut history, but one of the early colonization efforts "westward" was into the area that subsequently became northeast Pennsylvania. (We were 'originally' from central Connecticut, in the Windsor Locks area)

Interestingly enough, there appears to have been a very-hushed-up war between the Connecticut folks and subsequent "Pennsylvanians" about who had the right to be there. From what little I've found, it made the Wyoming Massacre look tame...

[rrnut282]

Overmod
thanks for the info/clarification. I was familiar with the Lackawanna Cutoff, I just didn't make the connection with this topic as I was thinking of the Erie Southern Tier route that NS is using as a shortcut for coal trains.

[ajmiller]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Overmod

Don't know if you're familiar with Connecticut history, but one of the early colonization efforts "westward" was into the area that subsequently became northeast Pennsylvania. (We were 'originally' from central Connecticut, in the Windsor Locks area)

Interestingly enough, there appears to have been a very-hushed-up war between the Connecticut folks and subsequent "Pennsylvanians" about who had the right to be there. From what little I've found, it made the Wyoming Massacre look tame...

I am somewhat familiar with PA history, and I do remember something about the "Yankee-Pennamite" wars. I looked around for some info, and Connecticut had a claim to the northern part of PA in 1662. It doesn't look though that there were any European settlers in the Wyoming Valley from Connecticut until 1769 which is when the first of these wars started. The Wyoming massacre took place in 1778.

This is all very interesting stuff.

Anyway, my own family background is Pennsylvania German (aka Pennsylvania Dutch). They settled in the Lehigh Valley in 1720's - 1740's. I do have a Connecticut connection though, I was born in Hartford after my parents moved there from PA. My Dad a job up there for a while, but we moved back to Pennsylvania when I was three, so I don't remember Connecticut too well.

[oltmannd]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Overmod

rrnut, this is one of the more magnificent accomplishments of 20th-Century railroad engineering, the Lackawanna Cutoff. From the same era that brought you the Nicholson (Tunkhannock) Viaduct.

My father's family has ties to the Scranton/Wilkes-Barre area from before there was a Pennsylvania... but I still find it a bit surprising that there's a 'need' for a super railroad between there and New York!

Official NJT propaganda about this project here:

http://www.njtransit.com/an_cp_project019.shtml

Erie-Lackawanna fan lists have, of course, reported oodles of detail (and probably still do).

I don't see any possible way this would be ready in 2006, short of a Manhattan Project style effort, particularly given the milestone structure on NJT's site... and lack of updating to it. Can't tell you if the economy and oil shortage hinder or help the strength with which this project gets pursued. (But I CAN tell you that excursions behind 3713 would have a whole new glory over that ROW!)

I think the DL&W moderization project was done with "excess profits", as defined by the ICC. In that era, you had to turn your excess profits over to the gov't. One way out of this was to reinvest in your phyisical plant.

Another questionable project along these lines was the giant coal processing plant built by the RDG in the mid-30s, I believe. Anthracite was already on the wane by then.

[Anonymous]

Well, thank you everyone for your replys. I am going to the NJT Port Morris yard tonight, so I can ask the formen if he knows when it will start up. Another thing, I herd rumors that Delaware-Lackawana might be running some freights on the Cut-off during nighttime. By the way, if your wondering, the Port Morris yard is the yard were the Cut-off is going to connect with the present day NJT Mountclair-Booton Line.

[Anonymous]

I've heard the M&E and D-L more than once, I guess we'll have to wait and see. One thing I don't line about NJT using the Cutoff is that D-L will be running the all-ALCO Portland (PA) Turn at night, instead of day. [V]

[martin.knoepfel]

an environmental assessment is IMO absolutely unneccesary. waste of time and abouve all: money. If the commuters drive to work by car, they will harm the environment much more than a reactivated railroad ROW.

If Conrail hadn't abandoned and service had continued, nobody would claim an environmental assessment.