What would you do?

[jeaton]

And hear is the explaination of rotten granite.
http://www.saltthesandbox.org/rocks/saprolite.htm#Where

Jay

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by M.W. Hemphill

The roofing granules are made from granite. The plant in Wausau puts out 50-70 covered hoppers a day. As of 1999, WC had moved 4 million carloads in 12 years. The plant bakes on a ceramic coating to give the granules the desired color. The plant opened in 1929. I'm not sure where the quarry is; the sources aren't very clear.

Sorry Mark, the roofing granules are made out of limestone, NOT granite. Granite, yes is a hard rock,though its mostly used for making gravel roads. Before they used the limestone,they had tried quartz,mined in Rib Mountain,though later in 1930 or so,they found that the quartz was falling off the roof shingles,so the search was on for a better material. At the Wausau plant,the limestone is vertually pulverised (smashed ) then kaolin clay is added to it,along with caustic soda,and various dyes to make the assorted colors,then baked in the kilns at the plant. The quarry is located in the town of Maine, just Northeast of the North Central Technical College. I dont have my Wausau map with me at the moment,but I do know the exact route of where the bottom dump semis take to and from the plant. I also have newspaper clippings and other info on the Wausau plant,if anyone is interested in this facility. I happen to have a smaller version of the plant on my layout. In regards to the line on the West side of Wausau,you are exactly right Jay, the ex CNW line still goes West to the Green Bay Packaging plant in theWest Side Industrial Park,This is also the area where you will find PDM Bridge,Wausau Steel,and Georgia Pacific. Even to this day the CN / WC still stores covered hopper cars there and along side Marathon Park for the 3-M plant,besides tank cars for 3-M,and also covered hopper cars of salt for the Marathon County Highway Dept. Its a really interesting area for train watching and the industries served in Wausau.Unfortunately there isnt a thing written about this important part of the "Valley Line",that once had the Milwaukee Road,and the CNW dominating this sector. Thankfully,I have gotten plenty of photos of the Wausau area, long before the CN started to tear things apart. Jay there is so much that I know about Wausau and the railroads that served it,that I',m sure we would be talking up a storm about it.[:D][^][8D]

[oltmannd]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Randy Stahl

An old RR rule of thumb, in the event of a derailment, the cause of the accident is blamed on whichever dept arrives on scene last, same with operating problems... LOL
Randy

...and all these years, I thought they used a spinner!

[jeaton]

Andrew,

I grew up on a farm near Gleason (about 12 miles NE of Merrill), and frequently travel up that way. I believe I have seen those hopper cars from the Highway 51overpass near where route 29 heads West. Isn't that track a remnant of the C&NW line that headed west out of Wausau?

Your comment got me to wondering if the granules are made from the "rotten" granite
that is found in the deposits to the Southwest of Rib Moutain. I really don't know what a geologist would call that stone. Sure does make a great road surface.

Jay

Jay

[Anonymous]

MP173:
The short WC covered hoppers that you have seen are loaded with 3-M roof granules that have originated from their (3-M) Wausau,Wi plant. Most of them are heading toward GAF in Kremlin, WI, and other points where roofing shingles are manufactured. The easiest way to tell that they are loaded with roof granules, is to look on the sides for pieces of light green tape on both sides of a sheet of paper,and on it,will be the lettering of 3-M,and the color it is carrying.Most of them are loaded with black,red,green,gray,brown or tan colored granules. The CNW used the Thrall covered hoppers that they had for the same purpose,though now they are probably hauling clay,portland cement,and who knows what else. I have many pix of the CNW cars used at the 3-M plant in Wausau,Wi. I grew up and lived there for many years. As for the grade on Byron Hill,I'm not really sure,but I believe that it might be a 1% grade.I'll have to look at my vast collection of magazines that have covered many WC operations and such,to find out. Tonight I had one really nice treat from the CN.They brought in WC GP40 # 3026,which is the Sesquicentennial unit that shows the entire map of Wisconsin., gonna get pix of that baby!! If you get a chance,stop by the CNWHS booth at Trainfest next weekend,November 13 & 14, at the State Fairgrounds in Milwaukee. Hope to see you.[8D][:D]
Andrew

[MP173]

cnwfan11:

Thanks for the info. Interesting that they use a unit up there at Fond du lac.

A couple of points....CN348, the Fond du Lac - to Toronto manifest stalled today. I was home so I went to watch it. It had CN5713 and WC6005 and 120 cars with most of the springs depressed. So, it was pretty heavy. Quite a few WC short covered hoppers. Do you know what would be in those? Cement, sand??? I remember a few years ago CNW got a bunch from Thrall Car that were really short...I forget what they were for.

Second...my son and I went to watch CN712 grind up the hill tonight. We heard him on the scanner...10mph at Yellowstone Street (this was at 7:55). At 8:40 it was at Sturdy Road, 2 miles east. The train made and my son said "the curse is broken dad!" Anyway, it was quite a site watching it at probably 2mph or less inching up. I didnt think it could possibly make it, particularly with the rain today, but those BNSF units just never quit.

What kind of grade is it out of Fond du Lac? How much, how far?

Is 348 usually a pretty big train? It was today.

ed

[rrnut282]

I videotaped C & T S rerail a couple of passenger cars in Chama with a front-end loader and a backhoe a few years ago. They used what looked like a simple sling attached to a hook on the top of the bucket to pick up the body and the backhoe positioned the rail back under the wheels. I thought it was quite facinating, but the family wanted to get back our base camp for the night after about an hour. The cars picked a switch in the yard and went on the ties for a while until everthing came to a halt. The equipment was borrowed from a nearby business.

[Anonymous]

Its abvious that they need to put a helper locomotive on the rear. Here in Fond Du Lac,Wi,the CN will put WC unit 7498 on the rear of quite a few trains going Southbound, to get them over the hill at Byron.I have seen WC unit 7498 siiting on the siding at Lomira, near Quad Graphics,awaiting for the next train going Northbound,back to FDL. And yes,I do beleive that the engineer may not know what the [censored] to do on the approach to the hill or how to manuver on it. look at the wreck in Cajon Pass,a few years ago, there was a student engineer on the throttle,and apparently he did not control the train properly. I'm not saying ALL engineers are stupid (I've known many that could operate the locomotives and treat them like pretty ladies ),though these "freshman",somehow they must think that the locomotives must act and run like a car. To me,it doesn't go that way.On an approach to a hill, I would put sand on the rails for traction,keep the units in middle notch,and watch for any signs of trouble on the rear of the locomtives.In other words.........take it your time and dont rush. Just a few nice words. Thank-you.

[Anonymous]

Arrester cables part often, and flight deck coreography, if followed correctly should keep you away from them at critical moments.

When I was a deck seaman, I went through training for where safe places are and where dangerous places are when near a line taking a strain.

A parting line can possibly cut a person in half with a recoil greater than the speed of sound.

Rope (hemp or nylon) and cable (steel) are on a spool for stock. When they are made up for a purpose, then they are called lines. Don't ask for a rope unless you are talking to a supply clerk.

A telltale is a length of small stuff ( < 1") woven at both ends into a line with a predetermined amount of slack. When the telltale becomes taught, the line has reached a safe loading limit.

Below 1 1/2 inches, rope is sized by diameter. Above 1 1/2 inches, rope is sized by circumference. Rope greater than 6 inches in diameter is called hawser.

Cable is sized by # of wires - # of strands, ex. 36-9 = 9 strands, 36 wires/strand.

It's quite amazing to see a 7 inch line suddenly lose two inches of diameter. Little puffs of smoke come out of the cracks between the strands smelling like burnt popcorn. Where the line is passing through a chock or cleat the paint is burning off. Scary, but exiting!

[jeaton]

Mark

That's guts or something!

One of my high school classmates lost both legs above the knees from a cable snap on the deck of an aircraft carrier. I'm not sure if it was an arrester cable. He said when he'd get down, it could have been a foot or so higher.

Jay

[Junctionfan]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Limitedclear

If you can believe it, we had a Superintendent who thought he could rerail loaded coal hoppers with a front end loader and a steel cable. When we saw it we tried to talk him out of it. When he refused to budge we hid behind our GP38-2. As expected the cable parted, snaking through the air and cracking into the car like a whip. Winters Wrecking was called shortly thereafter to rerail the three cars...

LC

What method did you do afterwards?

[Randy Stahl]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Limitedclear

If you can believe it, we had a Superintendent who thought he could rerail loaded coal hoppers with a front end loader and a steel cable. When we saw it we tried to talk him out of it. When he refused to budge we hid behind our GP38-2. As expected the cable parted, snaking through the air and cracking into the car like a whip. Winters Wrecking was called shortly thereafter to rerail the three cars...

LC

The mechanical dept had not shown up... obviously, LOL!!!~
Randy

[Anonymous]

If you can believe it, we had a Superintendent who thought he could rerail loaded coal hoppers with a front end loader and a steel cable. When we saw it we tried to talk him out of it. When he refused to budge we hid behind our GP38-2. As expected the cable parted, snaking through the air and cracking into the car like a whip. Winters Wrecking was called shortly thereafter to rerail the three cars...

LC

[jeaton]

Randy

So THAT is the origin of "How many RR managers does it take to rerail..."

(With apologies to the 7/24's out there.)

Jay

[Randy Stahl]

An old RR rule of thumb, in the event of a derailment, the cause of the accident is blamed on whichever dept arrives on scene last, same with operating problems... LOL
Randy

[jeaton]

Randy,

You just need to work on casting the blame on someone else.

Jay

[Randy Stahl]

After enough years you think you seen it all, a million ways to blame the poor Mechanical dept. FOFLMAO!!!!!!!
Randy

[Randy Stahl]

Or maybe a locomotive with an overflowing enviromental tank is spilling lube oil all over trhe track.
Randy

[MP173]

Just got back from the store and sure nuff, there was yet another coal train stalled. I pulled over and chatted with the engineer.

This one was CN764 with 122 cars and 2 BNSF SDMac70's (I believe). One was green and cream, the other was sorta pumpkin colored....anyway I digress.

He said the problem has just popped up the last couple of weeks. It seems just about every other coal train now is either stalling or breaking.

They were in the process of doubling the hill. Meanwhile...three crossings are fouled. As interesting as this is, I would certainly hate living on the "hill" side of town.

ed

[Randy Stahl]

See... so you can blame it on the Mechanical dept. Of course if the sanders work too good it fouls switches.
Randy

[Anonymous]

If tree leaves are a problem, hmmmmm, cut the trees back? Isn't that what the power company does every day?

There's this powder called sand, if you put it on the rails just in front of the wheels, this works pretty good too against wet rail and tree leaves.

[Randy Stahl]

Been on the receiving end of too many scenario's like this one!
Randy

[jeaton]

Randy

You're wrong!!. You should blame the engineering department. Who in their right mind would set the alignment on a grade to run through a cut surrounded by trees that will drop their wet leaves on the track and leave the rail slick as ice. I mean, after all!!
Should have routed that line through the Great Northern Indiana Desert.

Jay

[Randy Stahl]

Seems like a waste to install DP on the fleet just for 1or 2 trouble spots, or drag another unit along just so it can work for 15 minutes. What would I do ? Blame the mechanical dept.
Randy

[Junctionfan]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BaltACD

Helper Power and Helper Crews cost money.

Ideally on the Mountain SD helpers are able to get two or more shoves per shift that they are called. There are multiple helper districts on the Mountain SD which makes it a high cost subdivision to operate. The volume of coal, howerver, make the additional costs worthwile.

In this instance, I suspect that the CN does not consider their terriroty in Indinana as helper terriroty.....in fact no grades less than 1% are routinely considered helper territory.

If DPU might help, maybe they should do it. I don't think it will cost extra money on crews. If they distribute the power to both back and front and not just all on the front, that won't be adding crews either. 126 cars being pulled by a couple of Dash 9s isn't a big deal to the engines just the couplers so one on the front and one at the back pushing should reduce the coupler pull by 50%. like wise if you have 2 at the back and 1 at the front, a higher reduction in pull I would think.

[Junctionfan]

QUOTE: Originally posted by M.W. Hemphill

Yes, you're seeing a DPU train, Andrew. Why do you ask?

Couldn't CN just to this for this train?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by chessking

QUOTE: Originally posted by PNWRMNM

Chess

Sorry to tell you this, but physics always trumps B. S.

Mac

I forgot to tell ya I have rocket boosters. Now there's physics at work! [:p]

Terry-

Are you going to come back as "Fizz Ickes" next go??

LC

[Junctionfan]

How come than do I see a UP coal train with 1 or 2 engines in the front and one at the back going through Rochelle? Isn't it DPU?

[BaltACD]

Helper Power and Helper Crews cost money.

Ideally on the Mountain SD helpers are able to get two or more shoves per shift that they are called. There are multiple helper districts on the Mountain SD which makes it a high cost subdivision to operate. The volume of coal, howerver, make the additional costs worthwile.

In this instance, I suspect that the CN does not consider their terriroty in Indinana as helper terriroty.....in fact no grades less than 1% are routinely considered helper territory.