Uncle JakeThanks mudchicken, I started college today and instantly became dumber. :b
"Unanticipated" be the word.
Finding a side track 300 feet from the main is hard to find, then you make the track impassible by removing a rail....tough CFR conditions to be met plus the water and sanitation struggles.... BNSF has horribly few cars, most are put up in corporate lodging or have camper allowances...you have the dichotomy of complaints about the lodging vs destructive lodgers ... major users of camp cars are still the closed society Navajo Steel Gangs of ATSF pedigree. These folks are separate but equal by their own choice, but properly set up, they can go to work at a constant speed all day and embarrass the living daylights out of any other railroad's steel gang (SP/UP have seen this several times on or near Tehachapi, 6:1 difference in steel laid with fewer people and less equipment....in the same track window ) It isn't only the people in the gangs, it's also the planners and supervision. (Diningcar and I have both seen it up close)
OP-Sam needs to understand some to most of that contractor work is specialized to the point that the machinery that Fairmont/Speno, Loram, Hulcher, Herzog, Corman, Georgetown et al come with specialized equipment that a single railroad can't employ year round and keep productive. Railroaders from 50 years ago would be in shock and awe over the evolution of the maintenance side of the industry in the last half century. When I hired on in 1980, I wouldn't have believed where things are at either.
blue streak 1 samfp1943 Dave H., said: "...General strategies may be planned out up to 5 years in advance. Major projects are planned out a year or more in advance. So what happens when there is suddenly a requirement for unplanned work ? The example is BNSF's northern trans con this summer.
samfp1943 Dave H., said: "...General strategies may be planned out up to 5 years in advance. Major projects are planned out a year or more in advance.
Dave H., said:
"...General strategies may be planned out up to 5 years in advance. Major projects are planned out a year or more in advance.
So what happens when there is suddenly a requirement for unplanned work ? The example is BNSF's northern trans con this summer.
Capacity enhancement projects are not a part of routine maintenance. For the most part, depending upon specific MofW Brotherhood contract language, capacity enhancement projects are contracted out to hired 3rd party contractors. There is nothing that could be done this Spring to have additional capacity in place during this Summer - capacity projects cannot be completed that quickly - they can't even be contracted or have the necessary supplies obtained within that time span.
It took CSX nearly two years to add back the 2nd Main track between Sherwood, OH and Gary IN for the ConRail acquisition, and the right of way existed from the prior double tracking of that territory - and that was a PRIORITY project at the time.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
"...General strategies may be planned out up to 5 years in advance. Major projects are planned out a year or more in advance. Areas selected are chosen based on accumulated tonnage, failure rates, on site inspections, material availability, weather/time of year, customer commitments, proximity and timing to other projects. There is a team who does nothing but coordinate the maintenance activities with the operating and dispatching functions after they are planned..."
As you and BaltACD noted: The planning HAS TO Be well in advance of the actual starting of the "Project" or "Jamboree". Just the sheer volume of ties and ballast to be used and then the correct pieces for the Highway-Rail crossings to be used. and then the CWR to be distributed to the points where 'wear' would indicate needed replacement. One piece of the puzzle goes missing and it would seem the whole effort would grind to a halt.
Over the last couple of years I have seen some parts of BNSF's 'gangs as they passed thru this area ( South Central Kansas). All sorts of special purpose motorized and mechanical machines.. Operators seem to be all over some of them, riding in positions on top and underneath those machines.. Amazingg!
You have to admire the people who plan these projects and the men and machines that implement the work they are assigned to do. There is no other 'show' like it.
Semper VaporoThe cute thing was that each car had a "porch" with a wrought Iron railing around it. Two were facing each other with one having two Adirondack chairs and the other a chair and a small propane bar-b-que grill. All the comforts of home?
Ours just has pipe for railings, and maybe just enough room for a chair. Between the black flies and Adirondack skeeters, I'm not prone to sit out there much, though.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Semper Vaporo Several years ago I saw a train on the U.P. line here in Iowa that had 3 white "box cars" (?) in it along with some flats and gondolas with various equipment on them (backhoes, etc.), a couple of ballast cars and other smaller 'normal' box cars. The white cars seemed to be extra huge! They appeared to be much taller than any other car I have ever seen, but maybe it was just the stark white, flat, and nearly featureless sides, that made them look so big... that and the tiny square windows near the top at one end. I remember seeing the word "Dormatory" in black letters on the side of one of them. The cute thing was that each car had a "porch" with a wrought Iron railing around it. Two were facing each other with one having two Adirondack chairs and the other a chair and a small propane bar-b-que grill. All the comforts of home?
Several years ago I saw a train on the U.P. line here in Iowa that had 3 white "box cars" (?) in it along with some flats and gondolas with various equipment on them (backhoes, etc.), a couple of ballast cars and other smaller 'normal' box cars.
The white cars seemed to be extra huge! They appeared to be much taller than any other car I have ever seen, but maybe it was just the stark white, flat, and nearly featureless sides, that made them look so big... that and the tiny square windows near the top at one end. I remember seeing the word "Dormatory" in black letters on the side of one of them.
The cute thing was that each car had a "porch" with a wrought Iron railing around it. Two were facing each other with one having two Adirondack chairs and the other a chair and a small propane bar-b-que grill. All the comforts of home?
S.V.
You're describing those FEMA cars of conspiracy fame.
Norm
Semper Vaporo Several years ago I saw a train on the U.P. line here in Iowa that had 3 white "box cars" (?) in it along with some flats and gondolas with various equipment on them (backhoes, etc.), a couple of ballast cars and other smaller 'normal' box cars.
I hope nobody mentions the 'S' word now.
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
At least one still uses camp cars. I believe that it's Norfolk Southern.
I would think they would have their place as an option out West. Surely, there must be work done that isn't within easy driving distance of adequate lodging from time to time. So I wonder what Union Pacific and BNSF do in such instances.
Railroads used to use camp cars - I sleep in a former CR camp car when I stay overnight in Thendara. It's an eight person dorm in an aluminum box mounted on a flat car. Three sinks, one toilet, one shower, heat, hot water, air conditioning. Pretty bare bones. I'm sure a full work train would have a number of these, plus support cars, like a kitchen/dining car and power car.
While we've got it hooked up to local water, power, and sewage, they are capable of standing alone, although I'm not sure the 200 gallons of water the tank will hold would last more than a day or so without a refill.
I recall reading that at least one railroad stopped using camp cars due to pushback from the workers.
There is also the issue of where to store the train during and between jobs, and moving the cars involves its own set of rules.
My carrier does not use truck transportation of the various system gangs, rail, tie, surfacing, curve patching. All gangs are transported in a MofW equipment train where all the equipment is loaded in its use order within the gang. Attention must be paid to the direction of the train so that it is oriented correctly up arrival at it's next work location.
What gangs work where and when are a large coordinated effort with MofW and Operations both having a hand in the planning at least one and sometimes two years in advance. Plans can be changed if some local emergency happens. One area of special planning is the yearly Jamboree, where multiple gangs are brought together to apply all forms of maintenance to a selected subdivision where normal traffic has been suspended. These selected subdivisions are normally high volume coal lines and the Jamboree is scheduled for the miners vacation period.
No matter the gang, there are weeks of preparation that must be done prior to the gangs arrival. Rail must be laid down for rail gangs, ballast must be distributed for surfacing gangs, ties and track supplies must be distributed for tie gangs. Curve Patch gangs are short distance rail gangs that either install new rail in curves or transpose the rails in curves.
My carrier uses local commercial lodging facilities for the gang members.
Where does the railroad house what must be a large number of employees, when they are off-duty?
Typically local motels.
How does the railroad move the swarms of smaller machines to work on the track?
Flatcars or flatbed trucks.
My point is that all of this MOW activities require an immense amount of planning, and logistics to coordinate the arrival of materials, and machines and crews for these 'projects'. Their exact locations and the proper men and materials to perform the maintenance needed. Is this all a function of a computer program, on site inspections, or track maintenance employees making observations of areas that need work? What kind of time frame are these projects figured in?
General strategies may be planned out up to 5 years in advance. Major projects are planned out a year or more in advance. Areas selected are chosen based on accumulated tonnage, failure rates, on site inspections, material availability, weather/time of year, customer commitments, proximity and timing to other projects. There is a team who does nothing but coordinate the maintenance activities with the operating and dispatching functions after they are planned.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
On a fairly regular basis the TRAINS Newswire will carry a 'press release from a railroad referencing the start of a usually, expensive track maintenance project along their systems. The following was similarly reported on Sept 16th about a UPR Project:
FTA:"... PARSONS, Kan. – Union Pacific has started an $18 million track project between Paola and Parsons. The project began Sept. 16 and will conclude by mid-December.The railroad will replace 77,000 ties, drop 39,200 tons of ballast, replace nearly 12 miles of rail, and renew the surfaces at 118 road crossings.UP acquired the former Missouri-Kansas-Texas line in 1988..."
Parsons is an area of a former residence, I was some what familiar witht the line ( Kansas City and Pacific RR) former MKT line between Paola, Ks and Parsons. I happened to be visiting in the area and first notices the appearance of piles of new creosote cross ties along the ROW. and piles of the pre-cast concrete grade crossing units at various crossings.
I first saw the UP's Press release in the Parsons Sun this past week-end. Only, their headline mentioned the cost as $18 Million dollars cost of the project.
I wondered what kind osf a 'show' would the railroad get for its buck? It started with seeming, fleets of OTR low boys bring int to point along the line all kinds of trucks and service vehicles ( fuel, mechanical?) quite the variety of some pretty truck mounted hardware. all of it sparking white and yellow reflective striping. Motor cranes to unload the larger track maintenance equipment and put it on the rails. The biggest thing Inotes was the speed of the trains slowed down greatly, moving very slowly and lots of horn action from their crews, ( mostly was single toots and lots of them, as the trains passed the MOW gangs.)
MY questions; as a rail fan, are..
Where does the railroad house what must be a large number of employees, when they are off-duty? I know UP has some school bus stype transports to move the men out to their work locations. I have yet to see any kind of rail mounted housing for these me.
Does the railroad simply use local motels? Do the men provide their own housing?
How does the railroad move the swarms of smaller machines to work on the track? Do they contract that out as well? UP's workers all seem to be railroad employees.
The BNSF seems to employee lots of contractors to do their work ( laying CWR Rail) Welding CWR, and clean up along the line after their tasks are complete. Herzog' MPm is a frequent visitor out in Central Kansas, as is LORAM's rail grinding trains.
I know we have several posters around here who are involved in this type of Railroad maintenance and construction work, it is something that we seldom observe, as rail fans, as it seems to happen in times when there are lulls in the rail traffic, and locations that are hard to get to for observations.
I know it is hard work, in much less than ideal conditions; in all kinds of weather, but my only 'close-up' experience was a number of years ago, I took some materials out to a rail gang on the Thayer Sub of BNSF in the summer. I was floored when a Schwan's Home Delivery Truck pulled up for a break...and its load was free frozen treats for the track gangs, compliments of the BNSF.
I wish that at some point TRAINs could do a major story on MOW and the equipment and jobs they do. IT is work that is critical to the operations of the railroads, but is seldom reported on.
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