Schlimm's post of "Sad Pictures", and Ramrod's "If you had the money ..." made me curious as to what you all think about efforts (or the lack thereof) of saving railroad architectural sites, and which should be top priority. "If you had the money", which would you acquire, and what would you do with them?
Michigan Central Station in Detroit and Buffalo Central Station are certainly good starting points.
I think that, "If I had the money ...", I wouldn't buy a railroad but rather would buy and rehabilitate these 2 transportation/architectural gems.
And it would not be an easy job. In Oakland, California, the classic Southern Pacific 16th & Wood station has continued to languish, in spite of the efforts of the city, an adjacent developer, and an active non-profit. Some of the problems: poor neighborhood, and no longer feasible for rail (or any other transport) use. Aren't those some of the same issues in Detroit and Buffalo?
But giving hope are the successes: Los Angeles Union Station, Kansas City Union Station, Washington Union Station, New York's Grand Central.
Thoughts? Comments?
Add to the saved list : Worcester union station in Mass. I recently checked it out and it looks fantastic !!
All of East Broad Top's facilities at Rockhill Furnace, PA. It may be unique in North America as a complete representation of a railroad shop/yard/station/headquarters of the turn of the 19th to 20th century.
Tom
The former Italianate-style IC station in Galena, IL is a gem, currently housing the chamber of commerce. But if and when the Black Hawk service resumes (service to Rockford starts maybe 2015, but the CN does not want passenger trains running on their now-busy line to Waterloo) it will be an attraction.
http://members.trainorders.com/dr04/BlackHawk/20110424_GalenaTrip40.jpg
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
The problem you run into some times are the location of the property and a railroad's insistence that the structure be moved off their property.
A few years ago there was a movement afoot to save an old Harvey House Restaurant and Hotel in Seligman, Arizona. BNSF wanted to demolish the building and some locals wanted to save it. Fair enough, BNSF replied, but you must move it off railroad property.
The thing that killed the idea was asbestos and lead paint used in the structure, plus the fact that it was reinforced poured concrete. Cost estimates of saving it ran into the millions of dollars, and with Interstate 40 bypassing Seligman they realized that it would not draw enough tourists to be worthwhile.
Add to Dragoman's list of successful restorations the St. Paul Union Station, which is not only gorgeous but an active transit center, with light rail, bus and Amtrak; and Denver Union Station.
Add Philadelphia's 30th Street Station, too.
I second the EBT shops' nomination - like a time capsule of early industrial techniques and equipment.
The shops at Cass were even better (IMHO), but were destroyed in a fire in 1972 (there were other fires at the mill itself in 1978 and 1982, and at the station in 1975). See for example:
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/antique-machinery-history/photos-old-cass-railroad-shop-lathe-id-question-112277/
- Paul North.
The Michigan Central Station in Detroit has been bypassed when Amtrak started using a line to the NW of downtown to reach the CN line to Pontiac. The station is owned by a guy who buys distressed properties and lets them fall apart, although for MC station, the city has gotten him to do some clean-up.
That MC station was too much for Detroit from the get-go. I understand that there were entire floors of that building that were never used.It should stand as the eyesore it is until Detroit turns itself around (will I see that? it would be nice). Then, in a safely covered event, blow it away (which I understand might be easier said than done, due to its construction). I don't think it could ever be restored, for any use.
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
This thread brings to my mind these questions: 1. What's the oldest extant railroad station in the United States? 2. Which station today holds the record for longest, continuous use as a railroad station?
As an aside, I remember walking in March, 1967 through B&O's Camden Street Station and thinking that it must have looked this way in Lincoln's time because it was so antique in its appearance and feeling.
Oldest station in 1968 Ellicott City, MD. Oldest Amtrak station Lewistown, PA.
http://tps.cr.nps.gov/nhl/detail.cfm?ResourceId=782&ResourceType=Building
http://www.greatamericanstations.com/Stations/LEW
It's not on the scale as the type of stuff you folks are discussing, but that attractive Union Pacific depot in Columbus Nebraska that has been in the newswire lately seems appropriate to mention.
Particularly sad since it's in excellent shape structurally and has a sound roof where as those two big NYC terminals, while in good shape not all that long ago, have long been left to neglect making an extremely difficult task almost impossible.
I think I travelled through the MC station back around 1976-77, when Amtrak still ran a train or two through Canada. It was late when we got in, and with a 1 year old, I had other things on my mind.
Utica (NY) Union Station just observed its 100th birthday. It was saved from oblivion by the county, which has offices in the building, including the motor vehicles bureau, so a lot of people visit it. It also houses Amtrak, buses, and the Adirondack Scenic RR, as well as a restaurant and a barber shop. The building is classic "golden age of railroading," with plenty of marble and terrazzo floors. One feature that always gets folks is the heated waiting room benches.
The Syracuse station still stands, but has been repurposed by Time Warner Cable. There are no tracks there anymore, I-690 having been built over much of the ROW.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
The P&LE terminal in Pittsburgh is used as a popular shopping center, i believe.
Another union station that probably ranks right up with Detroit and Buffalo in the deplorability factor is at Gary, Indiana. It was made of concrete, so would be hard to demolish. It's situated right between the old NYC and the old B&O (the location would be better for train-watching than the one I camped out at last month), but there is no convenient parking, probably no safe way to get to trackside any more (the trains were "upstairs" from the waiting room), and it's virtually inaccessible. There was talk about making it a welcoming center or something for the area (maybe the dunes to the east), but nothing was done on that. It is not far from the existing transit center, which includes the NICTD station. Demolition, if it were done, would be non-productive, because the land it occupies is virtually worthless to anyone save the railroads.
Gary is a tough one, but on a far smaller scale than the other two. Not sure exactly how it could be reused, but I wish they'd at least secure it from the elements. It might not have a place in 2014, but it's a beautiful building with a facade and basic structure that is in great shape.
Expending a little bit of effort into protecting it might give it a chance someday down the road. I don't think they talk about it, but I think that's the goal with the Buffalo folks as well. They want it secured and are fighting a holding action in the hope that someday, it will get its chance.
They'd love a miracle to happen in the next few years, but I think the realist there realize that what they've been doing in recent years is with an eye towards hopefully the building being in the right place and time decades from now.
They're just trying to protect it to hopefully get it to that day eventually.
A bitter pill -- and so untypical of U.P. -- was demolition of the brick depot in North Platte shortly after Amtrak. I suppose the idea was to get it off the tax rolls. Maybe also inoculation against Amtrak trying to restore service to the Overland Route one day. U.P. didn't need the space for anything else; today it's a park.
Besides being handsome, North Platte was famous for its informal canteen for the troop trains during World War II, by which the good ladies of the area met every train with baked goods and other treats.
Gary Union Station is probably not worth preserving for a variety of reasons. The building itself has no really distinguishing features, it has been deteriorating for decades (it was already in bad shape in 1969 when I boarded a B&O train to Chicago at that location), and it has a poor location hemmed in between the Toll Road and the U. S. Steel Gary Works. The last point is probably what makes any attempt at preservation difficult to justify.
SALfanWhen was the station in Ellicott City built? As an interesting tidbit, the oldest surviving RR station in Florida (though no longer in use as a RR station) is at Lloyd, about 25 miles east of Tallahassee. It was built in 1858, and rebuilt in I believe 1946 after a major fire.
1830-31. The station at Lloyd is a post office nowadays.
http://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WMBVNZ_Lloyd_Railroad_Depot_Lloyd_FL
I don't know if you could consider it an architectural gem, but the NYO&W Middletown station is historic. It had some fire damage to the north end of the station about 10 years ago. A health clinic is trying to get a grant to rehab it.
Mention of Gary reminded me that I saw an old film noire starring Alan Ladd a long time ago. A good bit of footage was shot at the Gary station, including some footage of NYC L4 Mohawks. Wish I could remember the name of that film.
"Appointment with Danger", isn't it?
dakotafred A bitter pill -- and so untypical of U.P. -- was demolition of the brick depot in North Platte shortly after Amtrak. I suppose the idea was to get it off the tax rolls. Maybe also inoculation against Amtrak trying to restore service to the Overland Route one day. U.P. didn't need the space for anything else; today it's a park. Besides being handsome, North Platte was famous for its informal canteen for the troop trains during World War II, by which the good ladies of the area met every train with baked goods and other treats.
UP offered the historic pueblo style depot at Casa Grande, AZ to the city, provided they move it off site in preparation for the two-tracking project on the Gila Sub. It was determined that the structure, built in 1939, was too deteriorated and too costly to move. In 2009 it was destroyed as the result of a suspicious fire set in an adjacent pile of ties.
At some point in the past, I posted a photo on the Trains forum. At the moment, I cannot locate it here or in my files. At any rate, it was a beautiful example of area architecture and a real loss when it burned.
John Timm
The first Casa Grande station also burned, according to book:
http://books.google.com/books?id=TmGbpJDOkF0C
wanswheel The first Casa Grande station also burned, according to book: http://books.google.com/books?id=TmGbpJDOkF0C
Thanks for posting the photos. As you can see, at one time it was a beautiful structure, as least in the eyes of those who admire the architecture of the Southwest.
As early as the 1950's, only one train, the Argonaut, served Casa Grande, the others taking the Phoenix Sub.
It's kind of ironic, in a way - these gems are destroyed, yet I can think of several old wooden stations in this area that still stand, turned to other uses, with nary a rail in sight...
It’s interesting that the construction company that built the Casa Grande station still exists.
http://www.sundt.com/projects/vista-grande-high-school/
Casa Grande Dispatch, September 8, 1939
Ground Broken For New Depot Building
Sundt Crew Arrives And Starts Work
Contract Required Job Be Completed In Next 90 Days
Ground was broken yesterday by the M. M. Sundt Construction Company for the new Southern Pacific depot as actual construction was started on the structure which will replace the building destroyed by fire more than two years ago. Railroad engineers completed their surveying early this week and yesterday morning freight cars arrived with the material and equipment of the contractors and a crew of workman started to work.
The contract which was awarded to the Tucson construction concern several weeks ago requires completion of the building within 90 days after start of work so the building should be in use about December.
The new structure will feature an architectural design fully expressive of this region, A. A. Lowe, superintendent of the railroads Tucson division, said this week.
Embodying commodious quarters for the accommodation of the traveling public the new station will also provide ample facilities for the transaction of railroad business, Lowe said.
The building, 208 feet by 22 feet 6 inches, is of frame construction, its textured stucco exterior surfaces being enriched with ornamental precast cement decorations in color based upon Indian motifs. Office and waiting room are combined in a single large room divided by an oak counter of distinctive design. The walls are of textured stucco and the ceiling is of acoustical material. The cornice in this room will be decorated in bright colors to carry out further the Indian motif. Floors are to be of colored cement in tile design.
The large windows will set in steel sills fitted with Venetian blinds and the lighting fixtures have been especially designed to further the scheme of decoration according to the specifications.
Comfortable temperature the year around within the building will be obtained by use of a cooling system of the evaporative type or a heating system burning gas. Both will be equipped with blowers to give rapid circulation of air.
tree68 It's kind of ironic, in a way - these gems are destroyed, yet I can think of several old wooden stations in this area that still stand, turned to other uses, with nary a rail in sight...
Many smaller wooden stations survive throughout the country because they were smaller and more suitable for reuse and convenient to move. The railroad museum I am affiliated with is an old 1871 station. When the railroad didn't need it anymore a farmer picked it up (literally) and moved it to his farm as a storage building. The station only served the railroad 33 years. It has been in private hands for 110 years. As a matter of fact, when it was acquired for use as a museum it was moved a second time, almost right back to where it stood during its railroad career.
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