The Opicina Tram In Trieste, Italy

[daveklepper]

GN_Fan

Dave -- I have several photos of the track running into the car barn in Opicina where it is embedded in pavement. There is no provision at all for outside flanges as the pavement extends right to the railhead with no flangeway. All cars must be able to enter the barn, so I doubt that any have outside flanges. In that area the rail is not T-rail but rail used for street running with a lip on the inner side for the flangeway and another flange to keep the pavement away from the rail. I also have photos of disassembled trucks with normal flanges on the inside of the wheel. As for how the switches are thrown, I have noticed a rod and bell-crank system at the foot of the grade, so I surmise that someone remotely controls them, but I do not know who that would be. Since both cars have to be lined for the main before the cable is activated, maybe it's the "cable guy" at the top of the grade. Passing sidings on top of the grade are spring switches set up so one car takes the siding and the car going the other way takes the main. I imagine this would be the same on the gantlet track as well as the passing siding on the grade. I agree it would make a very good Trains story. And ya, 26% is steep, the Frisco cable cars hit 21% which is still pretty steep. I'd hate anyone to loose the brakes on their wheelchair going down those hills. There's a road just north of Yosemite that crosses the Sierra's with a 26% grade and a gazillion sharp switchbacks -- and the road is NARROW, so much so that two big vans can hardly pass without really hugging the edge. And there's no shoulder or guardrail! But that's another story.

I did not say that this line had any equipment with outside flanges.  I should have been clearer on that point.  What I pointed out is that this line had features of both a funicular and a regular electric railway line, and that a switch, at the bottom of the passing aea, and at the top of the gauntlet, would be thrown back and forth after each passing, so that one pair of trips would be right-hand and the next left, etc.  This is what you should check on.  There may be regular funiculars that use this more normal (for railroads) practice as WELL.    Anyway, it would make a good Trains story.

[gardendance]

I gave you the benefit of the doubt since you probably need to speak Italian most of the time :)

[GN_Fan]

Yup, now that you mention it, girder rail it is. My mind went totally blank trying to remember the name, so thanks a bunch for jogging my memory. Outside of where the track is in pavement, normal T rail is used.

[gardendance]

GN_Fan

In that area the rail is not T-rail but rail used for street running with a lip on the inner side for the flangeway and another flange to keep the pavement away from the rail.

I think you're describing girder rail: railhead; flangeway; flangeguard. In the US most new street rail is just T-rail, and the street paving is concrete, since it's very difficult for T-rail to have a decent flangeway when embedded in asphalt.

In Philadelphia, my home town, it's been about 40 years as far as I know since we've laid any girder rail. I believe no domestic, and very few foreign manufacturers make girder rail. Toronto probably would have the most demand for street rail in North America, and so most likely to negotiate a decent price for a special large order, which I think was Philly's 1980's last order for a new large carbarn, which really actually shouldn't have needed as much girder rail as street running would. Sadly I didn't pay attention to what kind of rail when I was in Toronto May 2014.

[GN_Fan]

Dave -- I have several photos of the track running into the car barn in Opicina where it is embedded in pavement. There is no provision at all for outside flanges as the pavement extends right to the railhead with no flangeway. All cars must be able to enter the barn, so I doubt that any have outside flanges. In that area the rail is not T-rail but rail used for street running with a lip on the inner side for the flangeway and another flange to keep the pavement away from the rail. I also have photos of disassembled trucks with normal flanges on the inside of the wheel. As for how the switches are thrown, I have noticed a rod and bell-crank system at the foot of the grade, so I surmise that someone remotely controls them, but I do not know who that would be. Since both cars have to be lined for the main before the cable is activated, maybe it's the "cable guy" at the top of the grade. Passing sidings on top of the grade are spring switches set up so one car takes the siding and the car going the other way takes the main. I imagine this would be the same on the gantlet track as well as the passing siding on the grade. I agree it would make a very good Trains story. And ya, 26% is steep, the Frisco cable cars hit 21% which is still pretty steep. I'd hate anyone to loose the brakes on their wheelchair going down those hills. There's a road just north of Yosemite that crosses the Sierra's with a 26% grade and a gazillion sharp switchbacks -- and the road is NARROW, so much so that two big vans can hardly pass without really hugging the edge. And there's no shoulder or guardrail! But that's another story.

[daveklepper]

Technology of funiculars:   One car has wheels with outside flanges, the other with inside.   If the right rail has solid unbroken connections to the two divergening rails, smooth on the sides as well as the top, and left rail has two flangeways, then the car with the outside flanges will go to the right, and that with the inside flanges will go to the left.

But this is a combination of a funicular and regular railway practice.  Still, an observer at the siding or along the gauntlet should observe the switch from right-hand to left and back with each pair of entrances to the funicular section.   Probably this was once done manually, but now must be automatic.

In the USA the Mount Adams Incline solved a similar problem for Cincinnati's streetcar system.  I think the incline is still in operation, but with buses riding up and down on its level platform cars, instead of streetcars.   

The two platforms each had a track and overhead wire.

I think this line would be excellent for a TRAINS story1

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

beaulieu

GN_Fan

And holy moly gang, 26% is steep!

Pfft, you think that is steep, the Lake Ritom funicular in Switzerland has a section of 87.8% grade(just short of being an elevator).

Not quite, a 100% grade is 45 degrees above horizontal, 1 foot of elevation for 1 foot of horizontal movement.  At any rate, it's still pretty steep.  I believe that the funicular at the Royal Gorge does have a 100% grade.

[beaulieu]

GN_Fan

And holy moly gang, 26% is steep!

Pfft, you think that is steep, the Lake Ritom funicular in Switzerland has a section of 87.8% grade(just short of being an elevator). The funicular is 1328 meters long, and gains 782 meters(2566 ft.) in height.

[GN_Fan]

Also to clarify something, there are two ports and several industrial areas around Trieste. The old port, which you pass by on any train going westwards, was abandoned in the mid-70's because it could not handle the bigger ships. A new port was constructed east of there, and a temporary track running down the main street along the waterfront connected the new port to the railroad network at the main railroad station. Altho the circle line above could have been used, the grade is pretty steep in both directions, and from Opicina to Campo Marzio, it is single track with no passing sidings. To alleviate all kinds of problems, a tunnel was dug from the main line just east of the railroad station, under most of the city, and over to the new port. The tunnel runs pretty much underneath our building, and when freights go thru there it sounds like you're on top of the New York subway. The temporary connecting track has been ripped up and the entire waterfront re-done.

[GN_Fan]

You are correct as there are no trams operating here, with the exception of the Opicina Tram which has been down for 2 years due to mechanical and funding problems. There was an extensive tram system operating thru the 50's and possible into the 60's, but like other cities at the time, they were deemed obsolete and were abandoned. There are two railroad stations in Trieste, the main station and Campo Marsio, and it appears that you were at the Campo Marsio station. From about 1350 to the end of WWI, Trieste and the surrounding countryside to the north and east was part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, which was dismantled at the end of the war. From around 1820 or so, Trieste was the only seaport for Vienna, and in 1906, the TransAlpina Railway was built from Vienna to Trieste, via Bled and Graz. The Campo Marzio station was the terminus in Trieste. The line and station are still in existence, with the station serving as a railroad museum now. there are many steam and old electrics there. The original line runs close to my home here, is well maintained but is not in regular sevice, but there are occasional special trains that make a circle trip from Campo Marsio, up the single track line to Opicina, then down the Aurisina cutoff where it meets the main line to Venice. From there it's back into Trieste to the main station. I've ridden steam, 1950's vintage electric, and standard electric on these trips. In Opicina, the line continues to Sezana, Slovenia, with the main line continuing on to Ljubjiana. The Original TransAlpima heads north to Nova Gorizia from Sezana, then east up the Saco River, thru the Bohinjh tunnel, down the Sava River into Bled, where it meets the line running north out of Ljubjiana to Graz, Austria. All lines in Slovenia see regular passenger service. The line from Nova Gorizia to Bled is especially scenic, and on certain Sundays during the summer, there is a special steam train with 1920's era equipment that makes the round trip on the original TransAlpina row. We have a special B&B on the banks of the Sava at a little place called Bohinjska Bella. Outside of a short cab or bus ride between stations in Gorizia-Nova Gorizia, we take the train all the way. BTW, the Transalpina was politically severed in Gorizia when American and British occupation forces ceded a lot of Italian territory to Yugoslavia. Presently, the rail connection still exists, but used only for freight. If you want to ride Peter Witts, both Milan and Turin have quite a few still running, with the majority in Turin.

[54light15]

I was in Trieste in 1979 and there was no operating tram system there. You could see the remains of the old system paved over all around the city and it looked to be double-tracked for the most part. There were no wires, either. But, at the main railway station there were some streetcars sitting there, maybe destined for museums? As I recall they were the Peter Witt type and there were maybe four of them as well as several FS 2-6-0s sitting there in fairly good condition. I was told by an officer on my ship that he had seen a tank engine switching cars on the piers, but I missed that. There were also some tank engines at a service area near the station that looked like they were in use but I didn't see any steam happening. That's what I remember anyway. Did see a nice old Fiat Topolino driving around too. I saw the Opicina tram, it started from a lay-by at the side of a main street and functioned like a streetcar until it went up into the hills.

[NorthWest]

Up until recently, the funicular cars had manned operators. I think the new system is operated by remote from the regular cars that operate the whole line.

[daveklepper]

I pulled up the website.  The dummies are controlled "by the tram operators."   What they must mean is by one of the two tram operators, since both dummies move in the opposite direction at the same speed and at the same time.  But from their description it is obvious that the downhill operator is in control, since the present third-generation dummies are low-profile so the downhill operator can easily see over them.

Up to 1924 the funicular section was a rack section with rack-and-pinon electric locomotives pushing the cars.  The line was built in 1902.

The cars are not coupled to the dummies, just rest by weight against them, like the coaches on the Mt. Washington cog railway against the locomotives.

Does Trieste have regular street tramlines in addition?

[GN_Fan]

AHAH!! Now, with DaveKlepper's marvelous description, it all makes sense and sounds so simple. Thanks a bunch, Dave. And ya, it's fun to ride and the scenery is terrific, especially in winter when the close-in vegetation drops it's leaves. There's marvelous view of both the city and the Gulf of Trieste. And holy moly gang, 26% is steep! But once you get on top of the limestone shield it's pretty easy going and that is where the good views are. Off the top of your head, do you know how steep Frisco's cable cars are. I've been on them several times and some places seem about as steep as the tram, but I may be wrong.

[schlimm]

There's also a short one in Dubuque, Iowa., the Fenelon Place (4th Street) Elevator.

http://www.dbq.com/fenplco/info.html

[daveklepper]

It appears to me that the cable-dummy operation is like a regular funicular.  The control and large pulley wheel is only at the top, and the cable is just a bit longer than the length of the line.  There are no grips, the cable is attached permanently to the dummies, one at each end of the cable.  On a regular funicular, instead of a dummy, you would have the passenger coach itself.

That is the difference between a cable-car operation and a funicular.  A cable car line has continuous cable, running in both directions, and any number of cars can use the cable, up to its capacity, with starting and stopping (but no reversing except backward coasting down hill) controlled by grips that attach to the cable the way a clutch engages a transmission in autos, in terms of the friction, not the shape.

A funicular has only two cars, cannot have more.   In Haifa, Israel, there is a 44-year-old underground funicular subway, with six stations, passing siding between the 3rd and 4th, modernized, each car a four-car train.  The stations are symmetrically spaced on each side of the passing siding.  Works fine.  Completely underground.

I bet that interurban line is fun to ride and has marvelous scenary.

[GN_Fan]

I live in Trieste, Italy and love the Opicina Tram which recently re-opened after a 2 year hiatus. It's an oddball in a way as it's hybrid streetcar, funicular, and interurban all in one. The funicular is about 800 meters long and maxes out at 26%, which leaves me asking some technical questions about it's operation. The cars are like normal interurbans but using a pantograph rather than a trolley pole and run that way when not on the funicular. Photos are available at https://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images;_ylt=A0LEVxMUIPtTGpMAqppXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTB0MnU1azVsBHNlYwNzYwRjb2xvA2JmMQR2dGlkA1ZJUDQ3Ml8x?_adv_prop=image&fr=ymyy-t-999&va=opicina+tram On the uphill run and at the bottom of the grade, the car stops and backs down a short spur to rest up against a "dummy" which grips a cable much as the cable cars in Frisco do. The dummy is un-motored and has no operator, and I assumed that when a highball is given, the cable moves the trams both up and down the hill. However, unlike Frisco, there are always two trams on the funicular at once, one going up and one going down. When both are ready, the cable moves the tram upgrade, while the downgrade dummy, which is on the downhill side of the car, keeps the car in check coming down. All sounds well and good at this point. The photos in think above show a lot of stuff, including passing sidings with cables on both tracks, and a stretch of quasi-gantlet track with 2 cables running in opposite directions. However, there is a point at the bottom of the lowest passing siding where there is no cable for the downhill dummy to grip, and my question is this -- what keeps the tram under control with no cable to grip? The grade at that point is 20+% and pretty steep for normal brakes. Secondly, at the bottom end of this passing siding, cars are still on a steep incline and both uphill and downhill trams share the same track, but there is only one cable, not two as I was expecting. Anyone know the exact mechanics of all of this? As we went uphill and passed the first switch for the siding, I noticed the guide wheels in between the rails but no cable. Hoping to see when the cable started, I watched as the downhill tram passed -- no cable in front, cable in the rear. Is it possible that the downhill dummy gripped the end of the cable? Anyone know??