The Canadian Pacific took the toughest approach possible on the gardens and the fruit trees next to their unused tracks on the Arbutus Corridor in Vancouver. They begin digging up pushing aside everything with heavy equipment.
The City of Vancouver was going to buy the land from the Canadian Pacific for $20 million dollars. The management at Canadian Pacific need a bigger return on their unused tracks so they set the price at $100 million dollars.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/community-gardens-ripped-up-along-arbutus-corridor-1.2737029
Andrew
Watch my videos on-line at https://www.youtube.com/user/AndrewNeilFalconer
I'm hoping lenzfamily can jump in here with more information on why both CP and the City of Vancouver want this line.
Now I know why CP is expending money and raising the OR to upgrade the line. An $80 million bump would seem to make it worthwhile.
Bruce
So shovel the coal, let this rattler roll.
"A Train is a Place Going Somewhere" CP Rail Public Timetable
"O. S. Irricana"
. . . __ . ______
Good for CPR. There are a lot of people, and evidienty quite a group here, who wrongly think that the railroad right of way that abuts their ground is theirs for use as a dump or a garden. It is trespassing and nice to see the CPR quit being a victim of it.
Mac
It's a little more complicated than it might appear at first glance, as is often the situation in cases like this. CP wants to sell the land for something in the order of $100 million, which is what it figures it could get by selling it off piecemeal to developers. However, the land has been zoned by the city for transportation use, not residential use, and the Supreme Court of Canada has upheld that zoning. Hence the City's $20 million offer, which is probably closer to what the land is worth as a transportation route. So, unless Vancouver gets a new mayor and council who might be open to rezoning the land (elections are this coming November), things are at an impasse. Part of CP's strategy may well be to influence the civic elections this fall. Many people feel that the current mayor and council have not handled this as well as they could have, and see the unfortunate gardeners as the pawns in this power struggle.
My own feeling is that both CP and the City of Vancouver are responsible for letting things get this far. Some of the gardens along the right of way are very well established, having been started 25 years ago, when CP was still using the track. So CP has at least tacitly permitted the gardens on its land for some time now, without objecting to them even when it was running trains there. Similarly, the City of Vancouver has quietly encouraged community gardens along the right of way, while knowing that the land was private property. Perhaps the City thought that some form of "squatters' rights" might come into play, but that is pure speculation on my part. What seems to have precipitated the current crisis is the Supreme Court's ruling that if CP wants to exercise its ownership, it must use the land for "railway purposes". So that's what it's doing, in its own "take-no-prisoners" way. This is the CPR of old that Canadians love to hate!
What is particularly unfortunate is that the southern part of the line, where CP has started the work, runs through what passes for a poor neighbourhood in this part of Vancouver--the industrial district of Marpole with relatively cheap apartments and housing co-ops. Many of the people who have gardens there are not just hobby gardeners, but rely on what they grow to supplement their family income. The railway started work there because that is where the Arbutus line connects with the Marpole spur from New Westminster, but by so doing has managed to give the impression that it is targeting poor people. Further north, the line passes through some of the most expensive real estate in Canada, and it will be interesting to see if the residents of that neighbourhood are able to bring their influence to bear before the crews get that far.
The City of Vancouver is entirely a creation of the Canadian Pacific Railway. This is largely forgotten now, as CP has sold off most of the vast land holdings it once had in Vancouver. But every so often, something like this happens to remind everyone of that history, and that even if it usually chooses not to flex them, the railway still has some powerful muscles.
DaylinerIt's a little more complicated than it might appear at first glance, as is often the situation in cases like this.
Thanks for your post.
So, what it sounds like this far into the 21st Century, is that to paraphrase a US expression this is a "track to nowhere". It sounds like a case of the CPR following the letter of, but not the spirit of, the law.
I have looked up this line in the SPV Atlas but I would still appreciate anyone who could tell us what the original primary use of this line was.
The "Arbutus line" is a last remnant of the Vancouver & Lulu Island Railway, which ran from the CPR yards on the north shore of False Creek south to Steveston, a fishing and cannery village on the south shore of Lulu Island (the city of Richmond). There used to be a pile trestle crossing False Creek just west of the roundhouse, between the Granville and Burrard bridges. Early on, the line was leased to BC Electric, which ran it for many years as part of Vancouver's interurban system. The interurban branched at Marpole, with one line crossing the north arm of the Fraser and continuing south to Steveston, the other running east along the north bank of the river to New Westminster.
After the interurbans came off, BC Electric (later BC Hydro) continued to run freight service with diesels, serving the industrial districts along False Creek and the north bank of the Fraser. At the north end, the line interchanged with CP and with the Great Northern, later Burlington Northern. Traffic was quite good right through the seventies and into the eighties, but all through these years industry was steadily moving out of Vancouver as land values rose.
I'm not sure when operations reverted to CP, but when the CPR False Creek yards were taken over for Expo 86, the connection at the north end was severed, and the line continued to be operated from the south end. Interestingly, mileposts are still counted from the north end, although that is now the opposite direction from what one would expect.
I remember seeing CP switchers pulling just a few cars at a time on the line in the late eighties and into the nineties. Operation seemed to be several times a week. By the end of the nineties the last customer was the big Molson brewery at the north end, beside the Burrard Street bridge, and when they switched to trucks the trains stopped. The line has been collecting weeds and rust ever since.
The "spirit of the law", as found by the Supreme Court, would appear to be to preserve the line as a transportation route; CP obviously wants to maximize its return by selling the line piecemeal. So I guess, yes, you could say that CP is following the letter, but not the spirit of the law. It will be interesting to see how, if at all, CP intends to use this "line to nowhere" for railway purposes. High-speed passenger service to Bard on the Beach? Express refrigerated trains hauling blackberries picked from along the overgrown right of way? Stay tuned . . .
AgentKid I'm hoping lenzfamily can jump in here with more information on why both CP and the City of Vancouver want this line. Now I know why CP is expending money and raising the OR to upgrade the line. An $80 million bump would seem to make it worthwhile. Bruce
AgentKid I'm hoping lenzfamily can jump in here with more information on why both CP and the City of Vancouver want this line. Now I know why CP is expending money and raising the OR to upgrade the line. An $80 million bump would seem to make it worthwhile. Bruce Hi All It's a game in my opinion. The City wants the ROW for about $18M, but doesn't want to pay CP's price, about $90M. There's a recent history here in which the City has restricted (through a ruling by the Supreme Court of Canada ) the Railway's right to dispose of their ROW as they see fit for any buyer's purpose. City of Van originally wanted it as a transit corridor for light rail. In the meantime locals along the ROW have used it for a variety of purposes (eg: I have a cousin who gardens on said ROW around 7th and Arbutus and has for about 10 years) and CP has done nothing to discourage them until quite recently as the media is now reporting. This is the result. The railway is using Transport Canada requirements (it says) to maintain the ROW to operating standards as a way of clearing the line, getting the City's attention and them I believe negotiating what the railway considers to be a fair price for the land. Hunter is playing hardball. It will be interesting to watch this saga unfold.... The view from here. Charlie Chilliwack, BC
The line sounds like it can now only be used for commuter trains, because there are no heavy industrial customers left to serve in that part of Vancouver.
I wonder if E. Hunter Harrison will finally come out for a press conference and say what he wants to do with the land.
"City of Van originally wanted it as a transit corridor for light rail."
Is this still the case? I see the line parallels the main N-S thoroughfare thru the city. I have traveled it a couple of round trips from the airport, and it was always jammed.
The land is still zoned for transportation--but that could mean anything from a bike path to another rapid transit route, or a disused railway!
The Arbutus line was one of the routes proposed for what has become the Canada Line running under Cambie Street to the east, and out to the airport. The residents along the Arbutus line did not want light rail through their neighbourhood, and that opposition pushed the airport light rail over to Cambie Street. I doubt they've changed their point of view. There isn't need for another north-south route so close to the existing Canada Line; although the route is running close to capacity at peak hours, the company has the option to buy what amounts to a computer upgrade and increase capacity without any physical expansion of the infrastructure.
I knew about the transit lines to New Westminster, but I didn't know about the line to the airport. If the local residents don't like the Arbutus line for transportation, then maybe they should let CP sell to developers.
MidlandMike I knew about the transit lines to New Westminster, but I didn't know about the line to the airport. If the local residents don't like the Arbutus line for transportation, then maybe they should let CP sell to developers.
In the view of many Kerrisdale and eastern end South Slope residents this wouldn't be any better of an option for use of the land. Many of them are wealthy, vote regularly in civic elections and like to think they have considerable influence (and truth be told, seem to) in city affairs (such as rezoning) especially as these affairs relate to their neighbourhood and any potential changes to it.
I honestly think that the railway sees this as an issue re land value. Restoring the line to operating service is a somewhat heavy-handed way of making a point to get the resident's and the city's attention and perhaps force a price more in line with CP's expectation.
As Dayliner points out, at the moment, the likelihood of developing the Arbutus line as a transit corridor (light rail) is remote and may well remain so for some time. However, the Lower Mainland is in a considerable state of flux as far as regional transit planning and development goes. The road-building vs transit (light rail) building is an ongoing point of contention between the Province and the Mayors of Metro Vancouver Municipalities and has been for at least ten years.
Remember how complicated the recent Port of Metro Vancouver truckers strike was with regard to the regulatory issues at play and you have some idea of how tangled a know this whole debate and process has become over time. Ports, roads, rails, buses, (toll) bridges......welcome to 'lotus-land'....
Like I said previously....Hunter is playing hardball....which for him is standard practice.....
Stay tuned.
Charlie
Chilliwack, BC
Charlie, thanks for your input.
With respect to MidlandMike's comments, what Charlie said.
The residents along the Arbutus line don't want transit, but I suspect that many of them don't want CP to sell the land, either. They want the free (to them) greenspace which has slowly developed over the last quarter-century--and I know that sounds harsh. The gardens and the greenspace have no long-term future. Either the City will buy the land, and turn it into a transportation corridor, or CP will sell the land to developers, and we'll see an eleven-mile-long string of condos sprouting up on the west side of Vancouver. No matter who wins this little pissing contest (and my money's on CP), the gardens and greenspace are gone.
DaylinerNo matter who wins this little pissing contest (and my money's on CP), the gardens and greenspace are gone.
Yup. What Dayliner said. Kerrisdale and the South Slope residents are getting a wake-up call.....Hunter style.
In the US, unused urban freight rail corridors, if they are not to be used for transit, are often converted into linear parks with bike paths. Is this a possibility in Vancouver?
When the City insisted that the land remain zoned for transportation, I suspect that they were thinking bike path rather than rail. Another option might be a bike/rapid busway combo. With the Canada Line now in service, most people don't see a need for rail down the Arbutus corridor.
One possible scenario is that a new mayor and council are elected in November, rezone the land, which CP sells off to developers, but donates some of it for a park somewhere in the neighbourhood of, say, 41st Ave, thus appeasing the most well-to-do of the garden plot brigade. The new mayor keeps his power base happy, CP gets its money, and recovers a bit of its tarnished image into the bargain. Perhaps the park could be named "Hunter Harrison Green"!
It was always CP in the position of ownership, of that there can be no question. Perhaps one could turn and bite that hand now, after 20 years or more of good will extended by CP to the gardeners, but it would also be typical of the sense of entitlement that comes from the "nine points of the law" problem.
I think a leader with some cojones should point out that there was never any free lunch for the gardeners, except that CP permitted them to take it. Now, CP wants something else, and there's simply nothing more to do about it. You had it good for all those years, but times have changed. We hope those cherry tomatoes and carrots were great.
-Crandell
As of Wednesday it seems the City of Vancouver and the CPR have resumed talking:
http://www.news1130.com/2014/08/27/track-work-suspended-along-arbutus-corridor/
Yes, slip that little word "herbicide" into the conversation and suddenly you've got some respect. "Now that I have your attention, Mr Mayor . . . ."
It looks like "The Hunter" is going to find a way to make money off of the Canadian Pacific property immediately.
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.