Saw something kind of humorous this afternoon on the cam. An eastbound BNSF grain train passed through (oddly with one unit on the front and two on the back) and as soon as the trailing engines cleared, three or four squirrels came onto the tracks looking for food. I'm not sure if they actually recognized that it was a grain train, but I would not rule it out. They were pretty easy to pick out with snow otherwise up to the railheads. After a minute or two, they retreated to the yard to the left of the tracks.
ChuckCobleigh Saw something kind of humorous this afternoon on the cam. An eastbourn BNSF grain train passed through (oddly with one unit on the front and two on the back) and as soon as the trailing engines cleared, three or four squirrels came onto the tracks looking for food. I'm not sure if they actually recognized that it was a grain train, but I would not rule it out. They were pretty easy to pick out with snow otherwise up to the railheads. After a minute or two, they retreated to the yard to the left of the tracks.
Saw something kind of humorous this afternoon on the cam. An eastbourn BNSF grain train passed through (oddly with one unit on the front and two on the back) and as soon as the trailing engines cleared, three or four squirrels came onto the tracks looking for food. I'm not sure if they actually recognized that it was a grain train, but I would not rule it out. They were pretty easy to pick out with snow otherwise up to the railheads. After a minute or two, they retreated to the yard to the left of the tracks.
Squirrels around my house prefer my telephone wire and my cable TV for their food sources. Squirrels have damaged both in the last 4 months.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Came to this site a while ago and got lost in the thread about Lucius Beebe. My original reason for coming here though was to describe what had to have been a near-perfect running meet.
I've always understood "running meet" to mean one in which neither opposing train has to stop. And the less either has to slow down, the better the dispatcher's timing was in setting up the meet.
This one had to be near perfect. First, a westbound UP train of empty hoppers went though on the near track at a little better speed than usual. In less than 5 minutes, an eastbound UP train of covered hoppers (grain?) came through, also on the near track, at what was probably track speed. I don't know where the crossover is that cleared the eastbound but it could not possibly have been stopped, waiting for the westbound to clear, and then accelerated to track speed in that short interval.
Somebody did a nice job!
ChuckAllen, TX
Yes, Chuck, that was certainly well done. I wonder: can anyone familiar with the operation there tell us what the speed limit is there, and just how far it is to the next crossover (is it at the entrance to the intermodal yard?).
Such meets are always welcomed by everybody concerned, no matter what types of trains are involved.
Johnny
CShaveRRSpeed limit across the diamonds is 35 mph for both railroads.
Also, there is a crossover three miles west of the diamonds where eastbound trains can go from north to south track (and thus be on what would normally be the westbound track). There is another crossover about the same distance east of the diamonds where eastbound trains can go from the south to the north track, which probably happens to any trains coming east out of Global III.
MrLynnThat 'near meet' sounds almost scary!
The same thing occurred to me. Assume that my "less than 5 minues" was really a full 5 minutes (it might have been more). Using Chuck Cobleigh's info that the speed limit is 35 mph and the first crossover is 3 miles west, that would mean both trains would need 1.75 minutes to travel between the diamonds and the crossover. That's 3.5 minutes of travel time and only 1.5 minutes between trains at the crossover!
It must have been more than 5 minutes.
If the time difference was around 5 minutes then the eastbound probably came out of Global III (which is primarily an intermodal yard but also handles light repairs and 1000 mile air brake tests for all kinds of trains). There is just one switch (Often called CPY076 on the radio) from the east end of Global III and it only connects with the track nearest to the park (Track 2). As you indicated, to get to the customary eastbound track (No. 1) such trains go the crossovers at Dement (CPY073) about 2 miles to the east of the diamonds (Called CPY075 or, more often, "the BN" by UP Crews.
The next place west that an east bound can cross from No. 1 to No. 2 track is at a west connection to Global III (CPY078) inadition to the connection from the yard to Track 2 there is a single crossover to Track 1. Also two yard tracks continue west about two miles to a final conncetion to track 2 only (CPY080). The next double set of crossovers is at Ashton (CPY083)
A better appreciation of the track layout can be gathered from the Chicago Railfan site http://www.chicagorailfan.com/rfttupg.html. Of course this is not authoritative but seems to be generally accurate.
CShaveRR Speed limit across the diamonds is 35 mph for both railroads.
Probably has been asked and answered before, but I not digging through all the pages -
Is the crossing Automatic or Controled by either BNSF or UP?
BaltACD Probably has been asked and answered before, but I not digging through all the pages - Is the crossing Automatic or Controled by either BNSF or UP?
My understanding is that it's automatic and works on a first come-first served basis.
OTOH, I've been wrong before.
Norm
Normally - any location that has Absolute Signals is considered at Control Point, even if the Dispatcher or Control Operator has no direct control of the point. If the signal at such a point cannot be cleared to display a indication better than Stop. Trains must have the Dispatchers authority to pass said Stop signal. At a railroad crossings at grade, there are additional actions trains must take after getting the Dispatchers authority - these actions are normally listed in the Special Instructions of the Employee TimeTable.
From the webcam page, if you click on "Learn about Rochelle Railroad Park" you will see the following information:
"Both lines are under Centralized Traffic Control,
or “CTC,” controlled by UP dispatchers in Omaha,
Neb., and BNSF dispatchers in Fort Worth, Texas.
Until 1965, the crossing was controlled by an operator
in an interlocking tower. Today the crossing is an
“automatic” interlocking, meaning it is “first-come,
first-served” for the right-of-way for any approaching
train, regardless of railroad or direction."
Enjoy!
Jim in Costa Rica
Modeling freelance Northern California late 1930s
Norm48327My understanding is that it's automatic and works on a first come-first served basis.
That's my understanding as well, and it's been opined here in the past that sometimes one or the other railroad will "fleet" movements over the diamond, in both directions, in order to hold "possession."
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
tree68 Norm48327 My understanding is that it's automatic and works on a first come-first served basis.
Norm48327 My understanding is that it's automatic and works on a first come-first served basis.
In the most recent UP timetable I have (current as of a couple of years ago), the crossing is not shown as a Control Point. The dispatcher can't control anything here, though he obviously knows why you can't get the signal in most cases.And just getting a lineup at the distant signal doesn't mean you'll be cleared to cross. Once your speed drops below 25 mph anywhere in the four or five miles of the diamonds, you have to proceed prepared to stop at the diamond. If it's clear when you're 600 feet away, you're good to go. What this tells me is that you might have gotten a lineup at the crossing, but you have to use it or you could lose it.BNSF's rules may be different. I know that on the westward approach, their distant signal is right in town, much closer to the diamonds than UP's is (the westward approach signal for UP is also the home signal of the Dement control point, about two miles away).
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
"---but what happens when trains from each line arrive simultaneously?"--They don't. If one arrives 1/1000th of a second earlier, it is still first. Or a millionth.
"I know that on the westward approach, their distant signal is right in town.." I'll bet there's a signal near Flagg. In the case of BNSF from the east, there is a signal about 3/4 eastward on approach. There is another NW of Steward or a couple miles SE of Rochelle. If I were to bet, that is the trigger for approach to the diamonds.
MrLynnYeah, but what happens when trains from each line arrive simultaneously?
As Dennis points out, the chances of hitting the circuit exactly simultaneously are infinitesimally small. And that nanosecond basically makes the difference.
And the crews aren't going to know, anyhow, I would opine. They just take what they get. The activation point has to be far enough out that a train can be safely stopped before hitting the diamond under most circumstances. That's dependent on the max speeds on the lines.
Even if it did happen, it's possible that the circuitry has some feature that will assign the crossing, rather like when two people show up at a four-way stop at the same time.
Knowing which line gets the nod in the case of simultaneos trips is something that a signal maintainer familiar with the crossing would have to tell. Again, the chances are so small that it may not even be part of the planning...
tree68. . . The activation point has to be far enough out that a train can be safely stopped before hitting the diamond under most circumstances. That's dependent on the max speeds on the lines. Even if it did happen, it's possible that the circuitry has some feature that will assign the crossing, rather like when two people show up at a four-way stop at the same time. Knowing which line gets the nod in the case of simultaneos trips is something that a signal maintainer familiar with the crossing would have to tell. Again, the chances are so small that it may not even be part of the planning...
Not to belabor the point, but I think it would have to be "part of the planning." Even if the system were sensitive enough to decide based on a 10th or 100th of a second, you have to allow for the possibility of arrivals the system interprets as simultaneous, remote though it may be.
Then, are there fail-safe devices in case an engineer misses the first or second signal? No PTC yet that would shut down the locomotive, right? I'm looking at these long unit oil trains, and just imagining what a nightmare a collision at the diamond would be.
/Mr Lynn
MrLynnThen, are there fail-safe devices in case an engineer misses the first or second signal?
The major failsafe is that signals are designed to fail to "stop," and dark signals also mean "stop."
I think the UP (former CNW) line has some sort of cab signalling - Carl would know.
But, failing an outside over-ride (ie, PTC), it's still the human element in control. And there was a collision there a couple of years ago. I forget the details.
tree68But, failing an outside over-ride (ie, PTC), it's still the human element in control. And there was a collision there a couple of years ago. I forget the details.
Rail grinder versus stack train; grinder on UP westbound and stack train on BNSF. Several containers opened prematurely.
Two UP trains on the diamonds as I started this post but a few minutes ago an eastbound BNSF unit train passed. The power went by before I got the window open but I'm wondering what the train was carrying. I first thought iron ore or taconite pellets as all of the cars were high-sided gondolas that looked to be loaded about halfway to the top sills. Then I think I saw black tarpaulins covering the load. Anybody know what was in these gons?
cefinkjr Two UP trains on the diamonds as I started this post but a few minutes ago an eastbound BNSF unit train passed. The power went by before I got the window open but I'm wondering what the train was carrying. I first thought iron ore or taconite pellets as all of the cars were high-sided gondolas that looked to be loaded about halfway to the top sills. Then I think I saw black tarpaulins covering the load. Anybody know what was in these gons?
Can't answer the question, but logged on at about the same time (middle of train), and wondered the same thing.
Did you notice how quickly the two UP trains got rolling across the diamonds after the BNSF gondola train passed? They both must have been waiting quite nearby.
Idle (unrelated) question: Is the guy in the dark (maroon?) car I often see parked to the right of the diamonds a railroad employee, a railfan, or a resident?
Possibly unprocessed frac sand.
Brian Schmidt, Editor, Classic Trains magazine
I would say that the gondola loads are probably "dirty dirt" (contaminated with hazardous substances); I've often seen them with black tarps over the commodity.As for cab signals, the UP line does have them here, a system inherited from the Chicago & North Western. It's quite primitive as cab-signal systems go (the only indications are "clear" and "restricting"), but it serves the purpose when your crew is alert. These cab signals are tied in with Automatic Train Control, which will enforce that Restricting indication, or will stop the train if not acted upon. Jeff Hergert would be more qualified to give details on this, even though I'm sure he always acts on his indications properly.From what I've gathered, an ATCS system will not allow you to pass a stop signal. I would assume that this means it will slow you down, according to signal indications, so that your train can be stopped short of the signal. The UP/CNW ATC will do no more than slow you to about 23 m.p.h. if you acknowledge it, but from there you still have to control your train.
Just saw an empty "produce train" go west on UP. MoW still has a problem with the left-most diamond (as you look at it via the web cam). Those reefers were rolling very nicely until they hit that diamond and then every one of them did a bob and weave.
An eastbound train of empty gondolas is going through now on the other track without so much as a quiver at the diamonds.
cefinkjr Just saw an empty "produce train" go west on UP. MoW still has a problem with the left-most diamond (as you look at it via the web cam). Those reefers were rolling very nicely until they hit that diamond and then every one of them did a bob and weave. An eastbound train of empty gondolas is going through now on the other track without so much as a quiver at the diamonds.
Watching today, lead locos on eastbound UP coal train did a bit of bob-and-weave, too, on the near track, though I might have misinterpreted flicker from the webcam. There is a crew out on the diamonds doing some welding this morning, on what looks to be the farthest diamond.
Earlier saw a BNSF tank train pulled by CN and BC Rail locos, plus one BNSF.
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