How did students get from State Collage PA to the Nearest Train Station in lets say 1920 or 1940s?

[jcavinato]

Off the thread a little: Back in the late 70s or early 80s when the local bus service was getting up and running full time with professional management, there was a year 2020 or so future assessment done of the Centre Region. That document actually contained light rail with an "X" pattern covering Pine Grove Mills, east to Bellefonte/Pleasant Gap and the Atherton Street corridor. When that look was 40 years out, it seemed likely. Now that 2020 is only 16 years away, I don't think that will be in the cards at all.

[jockellis]

I was glad to see the Bellefonte Central site. Its photos were my favorites in Lucius Beebe's "Highball, A Pageant of Trains" and I always wanted to know more about it.
Jock Ellis

[Anonymous]

Well kissmycaboose-

I love how you start a thread, leave us debate while you dissapear

theres a word for you, and it rhymes with "banker."

[jcavinato]

The closest an interurban got to State College was a line out of Altoona to Tyrone.

There was about one mile of wire strung by the Engineering College over the Bellefonte Central track from near the current day Sackett Building out toward Houts store on West College. It was to experiment with electric powered trollies, etc. This was some time in the 1920s.

My wife's grandparents used to talk about driving some relative from Phila to Penn State some time around 1913 - 1915. The trip would take two days. The second night would be spent at a hotel in Bellefonte, and the third morning would take about two hours to back track through Pleasant Gap and come into town through Lemont. They would have to pay a farmer near where the current day bypass goes over the creek near Lemont to cross his land and creek. The entire trip would consume eight tires on the car (a total cost of $90). Most of the roads were prinately owned toll roads. The current Eutaw House in Potters Mills was one of the toll places. There was another in Milroy, one west of Mifflintown (a stone building being torn down now for the highway through the narrows).

There was very little traffic in and out of State College. Students came to town at the start of the school year and stayed. The advent of going home or out of town for weekends only started in the 1960s.

[ajmiller]

That's interesting about the frozen coal. Didn't know that. Did you talk to someone who works there?

The power plant is owned by Penn State and is used mostly to provide steam for heating the campus. They do make some power though. I think about 6 MW tops, not enough to power the whole campus. I had a tour through it once years ago.

[Anonymous]

Did some more spooking around State Collage..Train station was at sight of Hammond Building.
Railroad Lost contract because power plant was tired of choping coal out of frozen hoppers. I suppose that large powerplants have car heaters that defrost the coal.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tabiery

[The first Bellefonte Central depot in State College was located on College Ave at Fraser. Sort of where the Hammond Bldg is today.

Someone told me its where Sackett is, but Hammond seems like a more realistic location. Sackett is a ways off College Ave. Not too far, but Hammond is actually on College.

Traffic is only bad on the whole length of College (up to the mall) and on Atherton from about 4-6 PM every day except sunday. College always is heavier than Beaver for some reason that I just can't figure out. Everything is terrible saturdays in the fall, of course.

[ajmiller]

The free buses in State College loop around or across the university campus, called The Loop and The Link. The other routes are $1.25. A few years ago Penn State agreed to subsidize the campus busses at the request of the students. The Loop used to charge 35 cents. I happen to think that the free charge is one reason why the campus busses are so crowded. I also think that CATA doesn't have much incentive to run more busses, they're probably strapped for cash anyway. Most people who ride the other non-free lines use bus passes, so there's no reason to provide more frequent service to people who already paid. And there'll never be a shortage of new students, so future sales are pretty safe.

Crowding on the streets of State College does happen, in particular College Ave which bounds the unversity on the south. I can tell you though, after living in the area for a number of years, it doesn't feel like a big city to me. There is usually a big flux of students during the 15 minute breaks between classes throughout the day.

They are building more roads, like loops around parts of the town, to alleviate some of the traffic, and I-99 is being slowly compteted to connect to the outside world. There's been a lot of fighting about I-99 because they uncovered a big pile of pyritic rock at the point where the highway crosses over the Bald Eagle Ridge. The exposed rock is causing acidic runoff into local streams. PennDOT is trying to fix the problem.

I've never been to Ithaca NY, but I know that the main railroad in Ithaca was the Lehigh Valley. Perhaps their stations were influenced by PRR. The SPV rail atlas shows a DL&W branch in Ithaca. The PRR did have a line through Elmira to Sodus Point on Lake Ontario through the Finger Lakes, but that was some distance west of Ithaca.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by detective_cinderdick

I did investigate the bus terminal today. No evidence of tracks but reminded me of another bus terminal at Ithaca NY for Cornell which also was a PRR Station. State Collage is growing and there are traffic jams that can be as bad as any major city. They are building parking decks but the streets are too narrow for light rail. A Monorail like West Virgina U. has would be a good idea here. There is a free bus service but the buses are packed here

The first Bellefonte Central depot in State College was located on College Ave at Fraser. Sort of where the Hammond Bldg is today. When they built the main power plant on College Avenue it was replaced by a new station on W. Atherton St. All coal for the power plant was brought in by rail. When they lost that contract it was over for the line .
The original right of way from Bellefonte via Waddle came into town and crossed over W Atherton Street at W Cherry Lane. Then it looped behind the golf course and followed West College Ave into town. You can find a feed store near Corl Road and College Ave. It is located on the east side of West College Ave. and was served by a siding from the main. Sort of a building that would look good on a model layout. Look behind Clappers Hardware for the right of way.

[daveklepper]

If a heavily used bus line uses a street, it's not too narrow for properly designed light rail if parking regulations are enforced and deliveries to stores confined to light traffic periods. Marseilles had a streetcar line (European PCC's, double-ended and usually run in two-car mu trains) on just such a street, and there were good examples in the USA and still a few spots in Toronto that should stay in place. Indeed, it could be argued that a really well designed and well operated light rail line can reduce traffic congestion by having greater rider appeal and thus lessening traffic and by carrying more people for the area of street space the vehicle occupies. But I would have to know a lot more about the State College situation to know which form of public transit is the right one.

[Anonymous]

I did investigate the bus terminal today. No evidence of tracks but reminded me of another bus terminal at Ithaca NY for Cornell which also was a PRR Station. State Collage is growing and there are traffic jams that can be as bad as any major city. They are building parking decks but the streets are too narrow for light rail. A Monorail like West Virgina U. has would be a good idea here. There is a free bus service but the buses are packed here

[ajmiller]

QUOTE: Originally posted by radivil

I think what it might be is some of the things I saw the population listing for might have been listing the entire population of Centre County (for some reason). LIke this one http://www.cityrating.com/citystats.asp?city=State+College&state=PA

You're right, Centre County is about 136,000 in population. Most of the people in Centre County probably live in State College Borough, or Harris, Ferguson, College, Patton, and Benner Townships which all surround State College. Also there is Bellefonte Borough and Phillipsburg Borough. The rest of the county is a bit sparse.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ajmiller

QUOTE: Originally posted by radivil

QUOTE: Originally posted by ajmiller

It's a medium sized town (borough actually) thoroughly dominated by Penn State University.

Actually its the third largest city in the state, having recently passed up Erie (103,000). It has a population of 139,000. I'm not certain if this counts the student population, which could mean its either 97,000 or 181,000. Of course, if its without the student population, its still only #4 on the list and Beaver Stadium still holds more people that any place in PA other than Pittsburgh and Philadelphia (106,537 seats. the most recent game was 108,000+).

Oh yeah, buses still stop at the Corner Room, even if they're only just the local in town mass transit. I walk past there 4-8 times a day.

Only on football weekends is State College the third largest city in PA. My 2002 Rand-McNally road atlas lists the population of State College as 38,420 (I suppose this doesn't include surrounding townships and may or may not include some students whose official residences are elsewhere). State College is far smaller than Allentown, Bethelehem, Scranton, Reading and Erie. It's also smaller than Lancaster, Harrisburg, Wilkes-Barre and maybe a few other places. State College is growing though.

I think what it might be is some of the things I saw the population listing for might have been listing the entire population of Centre County (for some reason). LIke this one http://www.cityrating.com/citystats.asp?city=State+College&state=PA

[ajmiller]

QUOTE: Originally posted by radivil

QUOTE: Originally posted by ajmiller

It's a medium sized town (borough actually) thoroughly dominated by Penn State University.

Actually its the third largest city in the state, having recently passed up Erie (103,000). It has a population of 139,000. I'm not certain if this counts the student population, which could mean its either 97,000 or 181,000. Of course, if its without the student population, its still only #4 on the list and Beaver Stadium still holds more people that any place in PA other than Pittsburgh and Philadelphia (106,537 seats. the most recent game was 108,000+).

Oh yeah, buses still stop at the Corner Room, even if they're only just the local in town mass transit. I walk past there 4-8 times a day.

Only on football weekends is State College the third largest city in PA. My 2002 Rand-McNally road atlas lists the population of State College as 38,420 (I suppose this doesn't include surrounding townships and may or may not include some students whose official residences are elsewhere). State College is far smaller than Allentown, Bethelehem, Scranton, Reading and Erie. It's also smaller than Lancaster, Harrisburg, Wilkes-Barre and maybe a few other places. State College is growing though.

Sportscasters like to say on TV that State College becomes the 3rd largest city in the State on football weekends. As a metropolitan area, its nowhere near 3rd largest, even on football weekends.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ajmiller

It's a medium sized town (borough actually) thoroughly dominated by Penn State University.

Actually its the third largest city in the state, having recently passed up Erie (103,000). It has a population of 139,000. I'm not certain if this counts the student population, which could mean its either 97,000 or 181,000. Of course, if its without the student population, its still only #4 on the list and Beaver Stadium still holds more people that any place in PA other than Pittsburgh and Philadelphia (106,537 seats. the most recent game was 108,000+).

Oh yeah, buses still stop at the Corner Room, even if they're only just the local in town mass transit. I walk past there 4-8 times a day.

[ajmiller]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Modelcar

they would have traveled down the east side of the Allegheney Ridge on "old" 22 they would have traveled under the New Portage Secondary RR via a short tunnel {another place of interest}, as mentioned above with the Muleshoe Curve not too far from where 22 passes under the RR.

Yes, in fact Old 22 does pass through a tunnel under Muleshoe Curve.

[Modelcar]

...Yes, years ago, late forty's I traveled through State College on Greyhound and even had lunch in most likely the "depot" discribed above....and for Kervarc above, as they would have traveled down the east side of the Allegheney Ridge on "old" 22 they would have traveled under the New Portage Secondary RR via a short tunnel {another place of interest}, as mentioned above with the Muleshoe Curve not too far from where 22 passes under the RR. I found a great view of that on "Terraserver web site" some time ago, a good photo from satellite that shows Muleshoe Curve plainly. As stated above much of that RoW has been overtaken by the rebuilding of 22. This is an interesting part of the Pennsylvania countryside for finding famous railroad sites....

[Anonymous]

Back when trains were trains and Joe Pa was assistant coach to Rip Engle, students relied on Fullington Bus lines to drop them off at either Lewistown or Altoona. I recall the round trip fare to Altoona was $3.00 in 1966. Fullington picked up in front of the Corner Room Restaurant.. If you didn't have enough for the train you could rely on Greyhound to Allentown, Philly and Pittsburgh .The Greyhound Bus station occupied the old Bellfonte Central Depot on West Atherton Street. In addition Edwards Lakes to Sea bus lines provided service to Erie, Williamsport and Allentown.
This was all before Interstate 80 or a four lane 322.
tom biery PSU BLOG '70

[ajmiller]

Sometime in the late 1980's or early 1990's a new four lane highway was built to carry Route 22 between Ebensburg and Altoona. It decends the Allegheney Ridge through Sugar Run Gap where the PRR New Portage Secondary (that ran on Muleshoe curve to Hollidaysburg) used to be. At some places along the highway there's a very good view of the main line on the oposite side of the gap.

People going to State College can go right from US 22 to US 220 / I-99 north. No need to go through Duncansville or Hollidaysburg. Sadly, NS has pretty much closed the Hollidaysburg car shops.

[kevarc]

Thanks for the info. I am a 79 grad of Penn State. I used to drive Route 22 from Pittsburgh to State College and that was always a foamers drive. Pitcairn yard, (maintenence, what's that) and then cut off and pass the the shops in Hollidaysburg.

My Granfather was a 1925 grad of Penn State and I still have his handbooks and other stuff. I'll look through it tonight and see if it has anything.

[ajmiller]

Here's another web site for Bellefonte Central also by Mike Bezilla
http://bellefonte.com/heritage/BCR/BFCRR.html

[ajmiller]

As far as I know, there was no interuban line to State College PA. I wouldn't consider State College to be particularly urban anyway. It's a medium sized town (borough actually) thoroughly dominated by Penn State University.

State College was not much of a transportation hub. Until two years ago, there was not even a four lane highway to connect to the nearest interstate. The busiest days are for football games and when students move in or out.

[daveklepper]

Wsn't there an interurban line at one time that served State College? I can imagine their using all six or seven of what were probably some old-style Niles or Jewett heavywieght interuruan cars providing a really intensive shuttle service to the nearest railroad station. But even in the 1920's some people did own private automatibles and there were the famous Reo hood-in-front over-the-road buses.

I suppose you are familiar with the famous intensive Connecticut Company open car fleet kept just for Yale Bowl games last appearing in November 1947. Each car carried maybe 200 or 250 people with 5 people seated on each of 15 cross benches, and the rest jambed in between and hanging two deep on the running boards and filling the front and rrear platforms. Not all fares got collected, but they did the job. Just from the NH RR Sta to the Yale Bowl. Without the streetcars, some rode busses, more just walked, about 4-1/2 miles. The streetcars ran at about 8 mph top speed in this mode, without stops except a very occasional red light.

The Salt Lake City, Denver, and now Houston light rail systems have been intensively used for mass spectator sports events and got very good marks from their local press on the reduction in highway congestion this made possible.

[ajmiller]

There was a PRR station in Lemont, about 2 miles east of State College. Also the PRR had a station in Bellefonte about 10 miles northeast of State College. Both stations were located along the former PRR Bellefonte branch which started at Lewisburg on the Susquehanna river and ended at Milesburg where it connected to the PRR Bald Eagle branch which ran from Tyrone to Lock Haven.

The Bellefonte Central Railroad had a station in State College and connected State College to Bellefonte where it connected to the PRR. Originally they did have passenger service from State College, but by the 1930's or 40's ridership dwindled. By then passengers were riding on mixed passenger/freight trains that took about an hour to make the trip causing people to miss connections with the PRR at Bellefonte. I suspect that most passengers would have caught the PRR at Lemont.

There were some special trains for football trafic from Pittsburgh to State College via the Bellefonte Central in the 1950's and 1960's.

The Bellefonte branch today runs from Milesburg through Bellefonte to Lemont where it ends. Both the Bellefonte branch and Bald Eagle branch are now operated by the Nittany and Bald Eagle Railroad. Today the Bellefonte station is used by the Bellefonte Historical Railroad and the Lemont station is a hobby shop. Bellefonte Central's State College station is a bus terminal.

Have a look at this page by Mike Bezilla http://kc.pennsyrr.com/guide/bellefonte.html

[Anonymous]

I can"t Imagine 30,000 Penn State fans jamming one little Streetcar can you?
From what I see there was no PRR Stop AT State Collage.