Some Dialogue about AMTRAK

[tree68]

I can't say what the rationale that railfans use to dis Amtrak might be. Perhaps it just hurts that passenger rail as a whole is in the sorry state that it is in this country.

The problem with Amtrak these days is that it has little to market. Speed? Except in the NEC, you're better off flying. Convenience? Sparse stations, limited route options, often lousy departure and arrival times all conspire against it. And how do you get around when you get there? Haven't seen many Avis booths at Amtrak Stations. Price? As mentioned above, hardly a bargain.

Can it be fixed? If things continue as they are, the outlook is grim. The company has some pretty high-placed foes. The circumstances under which it operates are unique in the transportation environment - borrowed track, direct government subsidy. No other mode of passenger transport in this country operates that way.

Should it be fixed? That's the $64,000 question that nobody can seem to agree on. IMHO, it should be funded through subsidies on a par with the other transportation resources. We've often discussed highway and airline "indirect" subsidies, which is to say that the government is providing services to support them. While there may be direct payments to some of them, it's not what I'm talking about.

[2c]

[MP57313]

Joeyalone,

Kinda heavy on the rhetoric there!

From time to time I've asked railfans why they don't like Amtrak. For most the funding issue fell into the "who cares" bucket. The bigger issues:
1. They all look alike and are boring and predictable and uninteresting to photograph
2. They get in the way of freight trains
Most railfans are genuinely more interested in freights...there's just more "there".

Greyhound isn't all bad. For routes "out west" on interstates that follow the main lines, you can 'foam' in the bus! (Like I said elsewhere, try not to alarm the other passengers). Bus routes come in handy if you are taking a day trip on the Sunset or other less-than-daily service and you need to get back the same day.

As for the airlines...they are really not getting much of a helping hand. Sure, there was a lot of press about the huge pst-9/11 bailout. The newer upstarts (Southwest, jetBlue, even America West) are holding their own, but the big carriers are in hard times. US Airways, United, and Delta continue to have huge cost problems. If you are familiar at all with financial reports, and look at their published statements, you will see things are not rosy for them. I do not expect the Government/Congress to rush in and "rescue" any faltering air carrier.

As for private automobiles...what can I say? Like most everyone else, I enjoy the freedom.
As for Europe...they do treat their passenger systems as an "investment", in contrast with much of the U.S. But even with all the great service in Europe, the cars are steadily making inroads. Germany is probably better know for the Autobahn, Volkswagen/Porsche/Audi, BMW, Daimler-Benz, as opposed to Deutshe Bahn [German Federal Railways].

Even in Switzerland...land of fantastically reliable passenger service and scenic vistas to boot, the car is making great inroads. And that is with people who grew up with trains, still have them, but choose to drive instead.

MP

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Junctionfan

QUOTE: Originally posted by kevinstheRRman

But the jokes are funny, especually the starve to death ones...

To be fair, maybe we can make fun of VIA? Have they done anything stupid lately?[:D]

Via?? Never heard of it, we must not have it up here in Western Canada.....

[Junctionfan]

When I was at Fostoria, I signed a petition against getting rid of the Three Rivers. I did my part-hope it helps.

[Anonymous]

Joey,

Do you not see the difference between taxpayer support for an anachronistic rail passenger service and quasi-free market support for freight railroads? What does the environmental benefits of railroading in general have to do with Amtrak? It's an apples and oranges comparison.

Even your own opening statement infers that you don't have any great love for Amtrak. Does that make you only a "so-called railfan" as you call us?

[Junctionfan]

QUOTE: Originally posted by kevinstheRRman

But the jokes are funny, especually the starve to death ones...

To be fair, maybe we can make fun of VIA? Have they done anything stupid lately?[:D]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by kevinstheRRman

But the jokes are funny, especually the starve to death ones...

wait, what was the joke? Just because I posted something that sounded a bit in defense of amtrak ( I didn't mean it that way necessarily) doesn't mean I don't want to laugh at jokes that deride them, as well.

[Anonymous]

But the jokes are funny, especually the starve to death ones...

[espeefoamer]

One problem is pricing.In 2001 I was going to Tucson to visit a friend.I checked Amtrak, and the one way fare from Fullerton was $95.[:0]. I ended up on the Greydog.Fare was $36.Amtrak would have cost well over twice as much.They simply priced themselves out of a trip[:(!].

[Anonymous]

It really is a shame that this country, which used to have THE BEST Rail Passenger Service in the world, is now scarred with Amtrak, a pitiful, disrespected service that serves as the butt of railfan jokes everywhere. What can you expect, though, from a country that (to it's own self-injury) is hopelessly in love with the automobile? Trains, it would seem, built this country first. They offered a type of connected-ness and sense of community that fit right in with the civility of old main-street America.

And then something happened in the beginning of the 20th Century. By mid-century, the phenomenon had ballooned out and spread across the country-side like a virus. Automobiles have since played an important part in our nations' history, but seem to sometimes almost contribute as much ill as good. Slowly, towns and cities began to spread out. Main street got replaced with a commercial six-lane, sidewalk-free auto-strip that discouraged walking and encouraged obesity. StreetCar lines got ripped out of major cities everywhere. Air Quality began to degrade. Asthma rates went up, and few people cared. And of course - Rail Passenger Service, no longer supported by a strong customer base (as americans were now bathing in the "freedom" offered by their private automobiles), nearly became a thing of the past. Amtrak was created, and even now, with all the hindrances and problems, sociologically, physically, psychologically, environmentally and otherwise, caused by societal mass-reliance on the automobile, America is still unwilling to renounce it's widescale reliance on the car. Long Distance Rail Passenger service is about to fall off completely, save for some places like california, certain areas on the east coast, etc.

I never did understand all the heat that Amtrak takes from supposed "Rail Fans". Did these people, who professed such a love of the railroad, neglect to see the many benefits, sociologically environementally and otherwise, that railroads (not just freight, but passenger service, too) have to America (especially over widespread use of trucks and cars)? Why the relentless dogging on Amtrak? Of course AMtrak is an easy target. Of course it's a joke in this country. Of course it's underutilized - if the trains can't run on time, if accidents and poor service is frequent - of course the public is going to learn not to rely on it. Why is it that more people choose the torturous GREYHOUND bus service (torturous is an understatement) instead of amtrak?

I don't know about you, but the current state of affairs somewhat infuriates me. In Europe, their rail passenger service puts us to great shame. Here, Airlines are given tremendous bail outs by the government, but when Amtrak is given some scrapings, people who complain about taxes whine and complain all the more. With the coming tide of world events, hinging on a dwindling supply of cheap oil (which those motorists love!) and the coming onset of PEAK OIL production, it would seem that rail service is the more petrol-economical way to go. Why then, are we treating it with such neglect? Why are more people not raising more hell about this? Why is a trip on Amtrak such a depressing time, with the attendant in the cafe car sporting a solemn look and practically begging customers to write their congressmen and ask them NOT to cancel the THREE RIVERS SERVICE (scheduled to be cancelled in spring '05). It astounds me that in this day and age, with the future looking as it is, that we are still cancelling rail service in this country. I think it puts us as railfans to shame to not be showing indignation at this fact. But that's just me. Any thoughts on the subject?