Alco RS2 Locomotives

[Anonymous]

Alco produced the RS2 locos from 1946 to 1950. In all 381 RS2s were produced.

Recently there were two of these locos for sale. They both sold. (There were also two RS3s and those two both sold also, AND fairly quickly too [;)] )

The RS3s if I remember correctly were still in running condition. I believe the RS2s needed some work. I believe the listed price for the RS2s was between $5 to $10k.

Now I know everything will be just speculation but I am interested in knowing how much money it might take to bring the RS2s back to running condition for say a short line to use. I know without seeing them it is hard to say so ballpark figures will be ok. I see used locos listed for $75,000 to over $100,000 all the time but the actual selling price is never given.

It is possible that these two units were either purchased or given to a railroad museum. They are shown as sold but who knows for sure about that ? ! ?

There is much good to be said for a loco that is over 50 years old and still around. I know there are some who will find something bad to say about them, but given the fact that will two engines still exist says a lot. [:)]

[daveklepper]

We should remember that ALCO did invent the road switcher concept some seven years before EMD tried first with its BL2(?) and then the GP-7. Not that some EMC and EMD switchers were not used for road service. The B&M, for one, did order some SW models with Blount trucks for road service before the GP-7's arrived. But the SW-1 clearly was the original road switcher. It was successful and most were requesitioned for service in IRAN.

[espeefoamer]

The units sent to Iran for WW2 service were ALCo RS1s,not EMD SW1s.The RS1 was the original road switcher ,being developed in 1940 or 1941.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by espeefoamer

The units sent to Iran for WW2 service were ALCo RS1s,not EMD SW1s.The RS1 was the original road switcher ,being developed in 1940 or 1941.

The RS1s were produced in 1942 through 1945 with production of 170 units. Unfortunately 12 of the units, which were headed to Russia, went down on a merchant ship when it was torpedoed and sunk.

I might add that the RS1s operated in temperatures ranging from -40 degrees to 170 degrees. Also according to R. T. Steinbrenner in his book, The American Locomotive Company A Centennial Remembrance, "The 'Military RS-1 story is a justly distinguished one . . . The ability of ALCO's original road-switcher to take on extreme conditions and keep on going is a tribute to its outstanding design . . ."

If that is not tribute enough to the RS1's ability and design then read on. [;)] The Russians were so pleased with the RS1s ability and performance that they copied it and produced their own locomotives called TE-1, TEM-1, and TEM-2.

Now back to American soil [:)] , after the war the RS1s were returned to America and declared "surplus". The Alaska Railroad received many of them and were please with them. Some of them operated into the 1960s and early 70s. The TVA received 19 units and the FRA received 13 units in 1974 which were used in "testing" [:(]

The Alco RS1 was well thought of by those who operated it. It took a licking and kept on ticking running. [;)]

[Anonymous]

This thread is about railroading and locomotives. [:)]

More than I can say about some of the recent "topics". [;)]

We did take a little sidetrack talking about the "1s" for military service but now we can get back on the mainline and talk about the RS2s. [:D]

[daveklepper]

I goofed with a typo. I meant RS-1, not SW-1. Apologies to all. The first time I read about this was in an old Railroad Magazine about 1952, the story "Caboose Chaplain."

[adrianspeeder]

Lehigh Valley had RS-2s and -3s

Adrianspeeder

[Randy Stahl]

Without seeing the locomotives lets assume that they need the following:
Wheel sets @ $1400.00 ea, not including labor to install them onto traction motors or into the trucks, lets assume you will provide the labor yourself.
Traction motors, RTO (running take out) $1800.00 ea. Oil & gear lube $80.00.
If the Main generator needs to be rebuilt $17.000.00, not including labor to remove and replace , count on approx 40 man hours to remove and replace.
Alco rebuilt power assemblys are around $ 1200.00 each .
As you can see the cost of repairs often exeeds the value of the locomotive.
Randy

[gabe]

Randy,

Good to see you back. Hope everything is going well in Maine.

Gabe

P.S. With regard to repairs exceeding the value of the locomotive. Good point, but does it exceed the value of having a railroad classy enough to run RS-2s? Well, probably; but in the event railroads run trains for rail fans, it would.

[Anonymous]

Thanks Randy [:)]

The cost to repair the loco can be a real bargain though. When the Arkansas & Missouri Railroad started back in 1986 they purchased used Alcos. Why? Because they could stretch their buying dollars by purchasing the Alcos and reworking what needed fixed. A & M purschased the used locos and turned them back into first class locos. They have served the A & M well. Many railfans have driven to either Arkansas or Missouri or both to film or take photos of these magnificently restored units. Now mind you we are talking not about RS2s here but the Alco Century line of locos. I have heard a rumor that they might be replacing their Alcos. But consider the fact that Alco closed in January 1969 and the last Century locos were produced in 1968. So we are talking about locos that are at least 35 years old. So the truth is that an Alco can still run after 20, 25, or even 30 years of service. Don't be fooled by those who claim that Alcos broke down all the time. The GE U25 had many problems early on in its career and GE threw tons of money into them to "fix" their problems. Even EMD has had a few lemons. Major US railroad used Alcos and were happy with their service. The A & M has taken good care of their fleet of Alcos but eventually everything becomes unrepairable.

[DRBusse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jhhtrainsplanes

Thanks Randy [:)]

The cost to repair the loco can be a real bargain though. When the Arkansas & Missouri Railroad started back in 1986 they purchased used Alcos. Why? Because they could stretch their buying dollars by purchasing the Alcos and reworking what needed fixed. A & M purschased the used locos and turned them back into first class locos. They have served the A & M well. Many railfans have driven to either Arkansas or Missouri or both to film or take photos of these magnificently restored units. Now mind you we are talking not about RS2s here but the Alco Century line of locos. I have heard a rumor that they might be replacing their Alcos. But consider the fact that Alco closed in January 1969 and the last Century locos were produced in 1968. So we are talking about locos that are at least 35 years old. So the truth is that an Alco can still run after 20, 25, or even 30 years of service. Don't be fooled by those who claim that Alcos broke down all the time. The GE U25 had many problems early on in its career and GE threw tons of money into them to "fix" their problems. Even EMD has had a few lemons. Major US railroad used Alcos and were happy with their service. The A & M has taken good care of their fleet of Alcos but eventually everything becomes unrepairable.

This discussion started with a mention of RS2s and RS3s...then moved to the A&M and their fleet.

Apples and oranges.

RS2's and RS3s are powered by the Alco 244 engine, which was a notorious clunker. Finding parts for Alco 244 engines today might be harder than actually fixing 244-powered units.

A&M's fleet is, at present, powered by Alco 251 engines. The 251 is a dependable workhorse; has been manufactured by various entities since Alco quit making complete locomotives in the 1960s--today new 251's are produced under the FM-Alco banner in Beloit, Wisc.. Additionally, tho Alco is a dead issue on mainline railroads, there's plenty of Alco expertise (and parts) out there, thanks to the marine and stationary power generation markets. NASA, the US Coast Guard and American Commercial Barge Lines are still big Alco engine users and there are many 251's in standby power service everywhere.

IIRC, A&M paid an average of $12,000 per unit when the railroad started in the late 80s. Complete overhauls of each unit were done at the railroad's Springdale shops using local talent and using a sizeable parts inventory gleaned from a variety of sources, giving the locomotives a book value that increased tenfold.. Over the years, there have been other parts inventories purchased to assure the continued operation of the Alco fleet. This, coupled with the high cost of replacement EMD's has made the A&M remain an all-Alco operation, even with the line's recent change of ownership.

Now, about the venerable Alco 539 engine, which powered the two RS-1s that A&M had. Granted, their place on the roster was the result of then-A&M president Tony Hannold's fondness for the units...but 539 parts are easy to come by, thanks to longtime Navy use of this engine and large spare parts inventories, and the continued presence of hundreds of 539s in the West Texas oil fields.

Over dinner I once asked Tony Hannold about a couple of RS-2s that were available. The preservationist side of Tony expressed some interest that they would be saved; the businessman/railroader side of Tony mentioned the 244 engine and said "no way" he'd be interested.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jhhtrainsplanes

Alco produced the RS2 locos from 1946 to 1950. In all 381 RS2s were produced.

Recently there were two of these locos for sale. They both sold. (There were also two RS3s and those two both sold also, AND fairly quickly too [;)] )

The RS3s if I remember correctly were still in running condition. I believe the RS2s needed some work. I believe the listed price for the RS2s was between $5 to $10k.

Now I know everything will be just speculation but I am interested in knowing how much money it might take to bring the RS2s back to running condition for say a short line to use. I know without seeing them it is hard to say so ballpark figures will be ok. I see used locos listed for $75,000 to over $100,000 all the time but the actual selling price is never given.

It is possible that these two units were either purchased or given to a railroad museum. They are shown as sold but who knows for sure about that ? ! ?

There is much good to be said for a loco that is over 50 years old and still around. I know there are some who will find something bad to say about them, but given the fact that will two engines still exist says a lot. [:)]

Jim-

I can remember well the RS2s on the Lehigh Valley RR pulling coal drags in the days of my youth. Even got a short cab ride on one once. Great old engines. The Alco 244 prime mover they had could be troublesome, but boy could they lug the coal...

LC

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jhhtrainsplanes

Thanks Randy [:)]

The cost to repair the loco can be a real bargain though. When the Arkansas & Missouri Railroad started back in 1986 they purchased used Alcos. Why? Because they could stretch their buying dollars by purchasing the Alcos and reworking what needed fixed. A & M purschased the used locos and turned them back into first class locos. They have served the A & M well. Many railfans have driven to either Arkansas or Missouri or both to film or take photos of these magnificently restored units. Now mind you we are talking not about RS2s here but the Alco Century line of locos. I have heard a rumor that they might be replacing their Alcos. But consider the fact that Alco closed in January 1969 and the last Century locos were produced in 1968. So we are talking about locos that are at least 35 years old. So the truth is that an Alco can still run after 20, 25, or even 30 years of service. Don't be fooled by those who claim that Alcos broke down all the time. The GE U25 had many problems early on in its career and GE threw tons of money into them to "fix" their problems. Even EMD has had a few lemons. Major US railroad used Alcos and were happy with their service. The A & M has taken good care of their fleet of Alcos but eventually everything becomes unrepairable.

More and more short lines are doing this with GE units for similar reasons. A B23-7 or B30-7 sells in the market for about $35,000 these days while a GP38 will run at least $150,000. Four for the price of one and a bit left over for repairs and upgrades makes this an attractive option.

LC

[Anonymous]

ONe other point. The Deleware-Lackawanna RR, a unit of Genesee Valley Transportation has bought up a bunch of old 244 engined RS3s and I believe has at least one in operating condition. I hear it has been fairly difficult to keep them going...

LC