There never was a CC&STL (Big Four) paint scheme.
mudchicken I'll keep waiting for a Big 4/ CCC&StL heritage unit. (to heck with that over-rated NYC stuff) Think I'll be waiting for a while.
I'll keep waiting for a Big 4/ CCC&StL heritage unit. (to heck with that over-rated NYC stuff)
Think I'll be waiting for a while.
Was there ever a Big 4 paint scheme separate from the NYC?
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
aricatRemembering what once was is why the Heritage Units are important. How many railfans can remember The Pennsylvania or the New York Central operating trains; or for that matter most railroads that existed before 1970.
This is exactly the reason Wick Moorman gave for doing the NS locomotives. He wanted new employees to appreciate where the RR came from.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
The Chicago Transit Authority had some heritage cars to celebrate the centennial of the South Side Rapid Transit:
http://www.chicago-l.org/trains/gallery/images/2000/cta1892.jpg
Railroads aren't the only ones doing heritage paint schemes.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/flights/todayinthesky/2015/12/01/american-completes-heritage-plane-rollout-twa-aircal-paint-jobs/76604236/
I agree with those on here who say railfanning is what you make it and that, as a subject, railroads -- including today's -- are inexhaustible.
I'm 72 years old, have been a fan from boyhood, and haven't gotten to the bottom of the hobby yet. Whether in the armchair (reading) or at trackside, I'm good! When I wear that out, they can bury me.
Remembering what once was is why the Heritage Units are important. How many railfans can remember The Pennsylvania or the New York Central operating trains; or for that matter most railroads that existed before 1970. Today,railroads such as Burlington Northern are fallen flags just as much as the roads that disappeared in the 1960's such as NKP. When was the last time you saw a Cascade green unit? If you go to Galesburg Illinois, do you know what trackage was once Burlington and what was once Santa Fe?
Railroading is ever changing. What you shoot today might become tomorrow's Heritage unit.
It would be interesting to total the number of railfans today, all who subscribe to all the publications and all those that don't but are member of one or another railfan organizations, and compare with the number pre-WWII. I'll bet the growth is a lot greater than the per-cent growth in population.
Look at the number of RR and streetcar musuems! Some with live steam!
Who ever dreamed that there would be an operating streetcar line on a city's main street (over two separate modern subway lines) running vintage equipment as part of a transit system as the system's possibly only profitable route!
www.streetcar.org
And then there are always Great Britain and Poland The former where one out of ten is a railfan and the latter where you can "drive" a sheduled steam passenger train.
The hobby is far from dead. More alive than ever, I would say.
In any hobby, there are those who consider anyone who doesn't see it their way as "unworthy."
Unfortunately for them, there are those who consider that way as "unworthy."
A fan of things rail is a railfan, regardless of their specific interest.
It's an open field.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Murph, that's not what I said. Read it all the way through before jump in front of the train or try to push me in front of it. My point is that there are so many ways to be considered a railfan, to take part in the hobby whether you just do one thing or hundreds different things. And none of those things are better than the other or more right than another, as long as what you do suits you!
RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.
I just watched a train roll by from my office window. I will now go hang my head in shame, knowing that I will probably never be cool enough to be a *real* rail fan. I guess that's what happens, when you take an interest in something without thoroughly researching the official rules of the hobby.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
I don't. I don't sit and watch the trains roll. Well, not all the time. I also read history of the railroads. And I will ride trains whenever possible...(note my "Ridewithmehenry" at the bottom of each posting here)...and in fact this Friday at least two others of my Ridewithmehenry entourage will drive over two hours to take an a two hour 20 minute train ride, a 10 minute subway ride, spend about an hour viewing GCT and the Christmas lights and visiting the MTA museum, then spend about another hour riding subways 7 & E viewing Sunnyside yard from above, about an hour watching the mechanisms of the LIRR's amazing Jamaica operations, then another hour on the J train seeing some fantastic subway yards and interlockings along with remnants of the LIRR and others in Brooklyn before a PATH ride to Hoboken and another 2+ hour train ride. I will visit tourist lines and rr museums, ride Amtrak when possible, ride light rail and trolley lines. I will take pictures from time to time but I enjoy bringing friends along with me so we can enjoy and learn about the present and past of railroading. I do not model but admire the work others put into doing so. I have a collection of railroad history books and about 500 books which are works of fiction about railroads or with railroad themes or main settings. I have operated fan trips and museums and have been an officer in historical groups to see that there is preservation of railroad history complete with buildings, artifacts, books, timetables, and operating and static equipment, etc, et.al.. In fact I am working on an annual meeting for one of those groups right now which will include speakers with programs about railroading past and present and future, including tours of restored a station and tower, a guided tour along an abandoned railroad including a former station, a guided tour of a former major branch line operation of a major railroad, among the program parts. And, yes, I have gone out to find the Heritage units and take pictures, too. Lame and uneventful a hobby it ain't. It is just what you make of it and/or how and when you want to pursue it. Nobody can say I am wrong about how I go about it and nobody can say you or anyone else is wrong about how you go about it.
henry6 Yes, there is some variety with the new smaller diesel manufacturers coming along....but they still look like, sound like , and smell like the static body diesels unlike the exciting varieties and sights and sounds and smells of steam, or even first generation diesels for that matter. And Dave, you mention interurban lines...while light rail lines are booming, I don't see the mob affection for them that the electric lines of the 20's to 50's drew. There are electric/interurban railfans today, but they are concentrated in urban areas around subways and light rail lines supported by the Electric Railroaders and the like. Otherwise, they don't draw the attention of today's railfans who want pictures of huge locomotives hauling long and heavy trains. Yet, when I introduce the NYC MTA subways, the NJT HBLRT, Newark Subway, or the diesel River LIne or the trolley/interurban commuter cars and lines of Philadelphia, they marvel at the speed, the frequency, the operation, the physical characteristics of sharp curves and complex interlockings of such lines. They may not become real or devoted fans, but they do respect and understand how these are parts of railfanning beyond big Class 1 colored diesel shell and photography. I am not putting down the differences, but noting the differences and also understanding that there is evolution and expansion in the hobby. I also believe that all comes together eventually either in evolution or in the pursuit of the broadest definition of railfanning.
Yes, there is some variety with the new smaller diesel manufacturers coming along....but they still look like, sound like , and smell like the static body diesels unlike the exciting varieties and sights and sounds and smells of steam, or even first generation diesels for that matter. And Dave, you mention interurban lines...while light rail lines are booming, I don't see the mob affection for them that the electric lines of the 20's to 50's drew. There are electric/interurban railfans today, but they are concentrated in urban areas around subways and light rail lines supported by the Electric Railroaders and the like. Otherwise, they don't draw the attention of today's railfans who want pictures of huge locomotives hauling long and heavy trains. Yet, when I introduce the NYC MTA subways, the NJT HBLRT, Newark Subway, or the diesel River LIne or the trolley/interurban commuter cars and lines of Philadelphia, they marvel at the speed, the frequency, the operation, the physical characteristics of sharp curves and complex interlockings of such lines. They may not become real or devoted fans, but they do respect and understand how these are parts of railfanning beyond big Class 1 colored diesel shell and photography. I am not putting down the differences, but noting the differences and also understanding that there is evolution and expansion in the hobby. I also believe that all comes together eventually either in evolution or in the pursuit of the broadest definition of railfanning.
Dan
To continue the nostalgia:
My wife was born in Evanston, Illinois, and became familiar with the colors of the C&NW commuter trains. After her father was transferred to Memphis, she came to know the IC, PRR, and L&N colors. Living in New York City, she rode the NH, NYC, PRR, LI, and B&O. In December of 1961, she went out to Boise to visit the man she was going to marry (her first husband), on the 20th Century Limited and the City of Portland, of course. When she stepped out into the north concourse of Union Station, she was immediately struck by the Armour Yellow of the UP, which she had never known existed.
I grew up with the Southern, and came to enjoy the L&N, the ACL, the SAL, the N&W, the CG, the IC, the GM&O, the B&O, the RI, and the MILW. It was interesting to see the foreign road sleepers, painted in IC colors, on the IC trains.
I miss the variety.
Johnny
My love of trains began around age two or three, during the Depression years. And I enjoyed steam and the glory days of limiteds, and cab rides, and so forth. But I had a special fondness for the interurbans and was very sorry to see them quit, most of all the North Shore, and LVT-Liberty Bell. Their top speed was impressive in itself. The informality and usual ability to see exactly what the engineer was doing and seeing the right of way over his shoulder was something the steam roads rarely provided. I have a relatively tiny taste of those days with Jerusalem Light Rail, which has raised my spirits tremendously here, and I use it and ride up front whenever practical. I urge you who feel jaded to ride the St. Louis light rail east to Bellville and beyond, the Baltimore light rail to Timonium (maybe father north now) on the old PRR Baltimore Northern RofW that did see the Buffalo Night Express, and the San Diego trolley on their line east into the foothills. I think you will find more than a taste. And the equipment is not cookeycutter either, each of these operatons has equipment from a different manufacturer, and some even have two types that are incompatible with each other. Some have frieght operations at night with second-hand interesting diesels that are museum pieces in themselves. Should not be too hard to get to know the freight crews, normally a freight railroad's and not the transit system itself.
Then here is New Jersey's NJT River Line with Conrail Shared Assetts freights and NS and CSX diesles rubbing shoulders with Stadler diesel light rail cars.
The hobby looks like it sold out to the digital camera be it stills or video. And the Heritage units have played into that hand. Operations are such cookie cutter today that it isn't as interesting and intriguing nuance as it once was. Diesels are diesels...a handful of models with different color paint rather than specific locomotives of a particular railroad's design and look; even the one of a kind diesels are missing more often than not. There is no ticket or freight agent in each town and there are no towers to visit: you neither get to meet railroaders like we used to, you also don't get to learn other than the 10,000 hp mile long snake rip past you. History is past, few, especially among the younger generation, seem to embrace the total history of the road before their lens much less the entire intertwined histories of all railroads and the advancements of equipment and appliances. If you are going to the next town, you drive, not take the local and the glistening streamliner doesn't glide by to distant cities and towns and oceans anymore either. (My opinion is while Amtrak is a good service, the character of their long distant trains don't match the Broadway or Twentieth Century Limited, the Phoebe Snow nor Ann Rutledge, The Super Chief nor Empire Builder of old.) And railroad hardware of today isn't as curious or attractive as that of yesterday, so who except the old timers really care about a kerosene lantern, a hoop, or a book of rules of the operating department of the Something, Someplace & Pacific or & Western? Photography became an easy artform to perform, to grab an image and have it in hand within a few days...in color, too! And now the digital age allows you to embrace the moment with a click and just as easily erase the moment if you don't like the results. But you can take hundreds of pictures an hour or hours of video and put it all in the internet for all to see in a virtual instant. So, no. The Heritage Units did not change railfanning but played perfectly into the hands...or lenses and visual recorders...of today's railfans. If anything, Heritage Units changed a sort of dull, everyday group of images into a hunt for the unusual.
Our hobby is what each of us make of it. Railroad-operated passenger trains faded out in my youth, railroading in the Northeast re-structured (end of Erie Lackawanna) right after I earned my degree, South Shore's freight service was dieselized, etc., etc., etc. But railroading is still fascinating and I keep showing up at trackside. Change is inevitable, but it hasn't killed my interest in trains.
CSSHEGEWISCH I have trouble understanding those who can't or won't find any interest in a unit train, either of 100+ bathtub gons of coal or a similar number of tank cars of crude oil. Both are excellent examples of today's railroading, which continues to fascinate me, even with less visual variety than in my youth.
I have trouble understanding those who can't or won't find any interest in a unit train, either of 100+ bathtub gons of coal or a similar number of tank cars of crude oil. Both are excellent examples of today's railroading, which continues to fascinate me, even with less visual variety than in my youth.
CN doesn't have "heritage" units, per se...but I got to see the following all at one spot over a couple hours:-EJE Orange SD38,-GTW Blue/Orange GP38,-IC Black GP40 and SD70,-BCOL Red/White/Blue C44-9WL/C40-8M and blue C44-9W,-WC Maroon/Gold SW1500.
I'll take it! I still see the occasional UP, NS, CP and KCS unit up here too.
tree68 Imagine the reaction if a railroad (or private car owner) painted a fleet of their cars (for loose car use, although a unit train would still garner some attention) in some heritage scheme. The railfans would again go wild, with many reports of where they were seen and when.
Imagine the reaction if a railroad (or private car owner) painted a fleet of their cars (for loose car use, although a unit train would still garner some attention) in some heritage scheme. The railfans would again go wild, with many reports of where they were seen and when.
BNSF is doing exactly that with a series of covered hoppers but so far the effort doesn't seem to have garnered the same level of fan attention as the UP and NS Heritage locomotives.
"I Often Dream of Trains"-From the Album of the Same Name by Robyn Hitchcock
garr tree68 Excitement about the heritage units sort of recreates the environment "back in the day" when any given train would have a really wide selection of railroads represented. Unless it was a unit train or some similar dedicated service, I'd bet a 100 car train could present 30 or more different railroads with their various paint schemes, billboard markings, etc. There is a true element of sameness any more. One could easily get bored watching at a location with heavy traffic. Another stacker. Another ethanol train. Another autorack train. Imagine the reaction if a railroad (or private car owner) painted a fleet of their cars (for loose car use, although a unit train would still garner some attention) in some heritage scheme. The railfans would again go wild, with many reports of where they were seen and when. Larry, I had not thought about it until your last paragraph, but we did have people spotting the Model Railroader anniversary box car and the WS Pink Cancer awareness boxcar. Only problem with painting the cars in special schemes in this day and time are the graffitist as those special paint schemes would be very tempting targets for that class of people. Jay
tree68 Excitement about the heritage units sort of recreates the environment "back in the day" when any given train would have a really wide selection of railroads represented. Unless it was a unit train or some similar dedicated service, I'd bet a 100 car train could present 30 or more different railroads with their various paint schemes, billboard markings, etc. There is a true element of sameness any more. One could easily get bored watching at a location with heavy traffic. Another stacker. Another ethanol train. Another autorack train. Imagine the reaction if a railroad (or private car owner) painted a fleet of their cars (for loose car use, although a unit train would still garner some attention) in some heritage scheme. The railfans would again go wild, with many reports of where they were seen and when.
Excitement about the heritage units sort of recreates the environment "back in the day" when any given train would have a really wide selection of railroads represented. Unless it was a unit train or some similar dedicated service, I'd bet a 100 car train could present 30 or more different railroads with their various paint schemes, billboard markings, etc.
There is a true element of sameness any more. One could easily get bored watching at a location with heavy traffic. Another stacker. Another ethanol train. Another autorack train.
Larry,
I had not thought about it until your last paragraph, but we did have people spotting the Model Railroader anniversary box car and the WS Pink Cancer awareness boxcar. Only problem with painting the cars in special schemes in this day and time are the graffitist as those special paint schemes would be very tempting targets for that class of people.
Jay
Larry and Jay:
Found a couple of interesting videos of the "Tropicana Juice Train". This train is apparently a 'captive' of CSX (?). Not only is it a private car operation, but also 'high profile' [White Cars with Decorations of the Cargo inside,Oranges and O.J.] I would assume that it is pretty tightly scheduled, both to and from deliveries, but it has drawn attention to some of the graffiti artists whereever it lands to be either loaded or unloaded.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETc6zYHj79s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqYzakkVZ1M
garr Only problem with painting the cars in special schemes in this day and time are the graffitist as those special paint schemes would be very tempting targets for that class of people.
Jay - While graffiti is going to be a problem, I'm thinking more along the lines of "everyday" vintage paint schemes, which wouldn't really attract attention, as such, except by those with an interest. A "Southern" "give a green light to innovation" or a Chessie scheme, or any of the various UP boxcars (especially the maps!) would certainly draw railfan attention.
And if, say, a railroad (or anyone) ordered a hundred cars in that scheme, they'd become a certain level of commonplace and therefore be less likely to attract undo attention.
We can dream...
Heritage units are nice and I appreciate them and Norfolk Southern's gesture; however, its just paint! Speaking for myself only, I'm more interested in the business and operations side of things. I don't even care so much about the motive power anymore... and really, for a fan standing trackside its more about the ambience, the feel, of having 15 thousand tons roll past you. Colors be damned...they don't matter so much.
I have found that railfanning is "down" in general in my area.
Where there used to be 6 or 7 people that I would see periodically, I only see another railfan these days if there is a heritage unit coming through, but the people I see are not the old cadre that used to be around.
I attribute some of this to the building of a street overpass at the old "good" spot and now no way to get there as it is all RR property now.
The next best spot used to have a few people there often but even that is down now and I am the only one there 99% of the time. The ones that do come usually don't stay long enough to even see one train! I attribute that to a relatively new yard worker that doesn't like being "Watched" whilst he works and he will politely (usually) "ask" that people leave after a few minutes. I have always complied with his request and now will leave if I recognize him being there before he gets upset. I also have been parking much farther away so as to not be so obvious, and mostly out of his sight as he works.
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
Our heritage units appear to be getting "extra care" still after all these years. Some seem to get better care than others. The Espee unit is very clean every time I see it, but the MoPac unit seems to be a little more neglected, but not bad. The UP still uses these units for PR, such as parking the MoPac unit at Ogden Union Station for national train day, and using them as protection power on the steam excursions. I would suspect based on those couple of things, they will be maintained pretty well for some time.
As a railfan, I really enjoy seeing them, and as an employee, I get a sense of pride that a company is mindful of its heritage. Even some of my non railfan coworkers comment on them when we see them.
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