BigJim BaltACDI would also have to question why only the locomotive derailed, and if it was leading the movement why it's act of derailing didn't tear up the track and derail the cars.Many years ago we had a runaway during a bad snow storm. A loco cut off from its train at the top of a long grade in order to give another train a unit. In the process ten loads of limestone and a cab, on the rear, rolled away. It was estimated that at the time of the derailment, six miles down the hill, the cars were doing close to ninety mph and this was in territory where the curves were limited to 30 mph. The odd thing about this derailment was that after a stretch of not so curvy track, when the caboose, now in the lead hit the next 30 mph curve, it went halfway around a curve before turning over and derailing! The loaded cars, however, went straight as an arrow through a rock outcrop, across a road, through a creek and started up the bank on the other side before stopping.
BaltACDI would also have to question why only the locomotive derailed, and if it was leading the movement why it's act of derailing didn't tear up the track and derail the cars.
The caboose is lighter so not a much force, which allowed it to take the first part of the curve, but then it tipped over to much, or the flanges climbed the rail, while te much heavier loaded car had a lot more momentum, which cause them to just derail. That would be my theory.
dakotafred Isn't it unusually bad luck for three lives to be lost in a (low-speed?) rollover like this?
Isn't it unusually bad luck for three lives to be lost in a (low-speed?) rollover like this?
I would speculate that the distance the locomotive slid, plus the track staying intact, indicates that high speed was the reason for the derailment. However, the root cause is yet to be determined.
If the speed was high enough to derail the locomotive without any track damage, I would say that the three people in the cab were probably tossed to the side of the cab which impacted the ground--much like the VIA rail accident a little over a year ago where the passenger train was diverted thru a lowspeed(15mph?) turnout while traveling, IIRC, around 70 mph, killing all three people in the cab.
Jay
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MidlandMike The cars were filled with ore, and the picture in the second article shows the cars stopped a short distance down the track, so I don't see that the brakes didn't work as expected.
Another factor might be how 'tight' the couplers are, and whether or not there are any rotary couplers in the following cars - I suspect that rotary couplers would allow the cars to rotate/ tip off the track easier than conventional couplers.
- Paul North.
Thanks all for your opinions on this . I live in the next county over ,but I have driven by that area once and I have Google map it so it looks like a TREE68 said .
~ Tim .
To see photos of my HO scale / 1/64 scale layout and diorama photos base in the present day . http://www.flickr.com/photos/icr140/
The cars were filled with ore, and the picture in the second article shows the cars stopped a short distance down the track, so I don't see that the brakes didn't work as expected.
I've only been able to get a rough idea of where the incident occured. There is an arroyo that parallels the tracks there, and a number of fairly sharp curves. Beyond that, no idea.
One story noted that a fair amount of money had been spent on the tracks there, but that's still no indication of their condition.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
I wonder how much of a grade, if any, the train was descending? I believe the reported 40 to 50' drop into an arroyo is a little misleading as the photos show a locomotive that slid on its side for 40 to 50' and ended up about 12' below the track level. It would be nice to know the track layout before the derailment. (going forward, speculation warning) From the distance the locomotive slid and how it ended up, my guess is the train was coming out of a right hand curve. For the cars to continue, this seems to indicate the locomotive tipped over (excess speed?) leaving the track intact for the cars to continue down the track another 100 yards to derail on the next curve. From the photos of the hoppers, it does not appear that there is any track damage from derailed cars.
tree68 BrendenPerkinsIt's not a common occurrence at all, really. If everything is functioning properly with the train brakes, they should be put in emergency when uncoupled from the locomotive. I would tend to agree, but there's no indication of the grade involved, or the distance between where the locomotive left the tracks and where the rest of the cars derailed. Given enough grade and momentum, gravity could have overwhelmed the brakes on the cars, assuming they were all working. I would question why the locomotive left the tracks. If the tracks are in sorry shape, the locomotive might have set into harmonic oscillation and rocked over just that much too far. It's happened with hoppers.
BrendenPerkinsIt's not a common occurrence at all, really. If everything is functioning properly with the train brakes, they should be put in emergency when uncoupled from the locomotive.
I would tend to agree, but there's no indication of the grade involved, or the distance between where the locomotive left the tracks and where the rest of the cars derailed.
Given enough grade and momentum, gravity could have overwhelmed the brakes on the cars, assuming they were all working.
I would question why the locomotive left the tracks. If the tracks are in sorry shape, the locomotive might have set into harmonic oscillation and rocked over just that much too far. It's happened with hoppers.
I would also have to question why only the locomotive derailed, and if it was leading the movement why it's act of derailing didn't tear up the track and derail the cars.
My carrier has had some 'run-a-way' derailments of trains losing brake power descending grades - surprisingly, the locomotives made it down the grade and were brought to a safe stop - their trains, however, did not.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
It could only be 'common' if no air was being used on the cut of cars or the cars had not had a proper air test. A charged trainline will vent to atmosphere when the train air line is broken when the locomotive clears the cars and the brakes will apply on the cars. No air-no brakes-no stop!
henry6 Quite common occurrence. When the locomotive derails it uncouples from the train and falls far enough from the track so as not to block it.
Quite common occurrence. When the locomotive derails it uncouples from the train and falls far enough from the track so as not to block it.
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I hardly use this form ,but this local train wreck got me think ,How can a locomotive derail ,but the cars continued on ? This from the Silver city Sun News Paper "The locomotive was pulling eight cars south to Santa Rita when it fell off the track. The eight supply cars continued to run along the track until they reached a curve in the tracks and then derailed. The Federal Railroad Administration has been contacted and will investigate the cause of the accident, Sgt. Sosa said." here is the link to the article http://www.scsun-news.com/silver_city-news/ci_24630639
Has anyone ever heard of something like this ? Tim
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