Just as further fuel for the fire, we have traversed the CP/CN track that has raised complaints in the St. Paul/Minneapolis area. There are trespassers (and their dogs) around every corner. The right of way is wide in places and makes a nice walking area. The grade crossings have very poor visibility and we blow the whistle as much as we can. When the line crosses Highway 61 just north of White Bear Lake, MN the cars cross in front of the train until the last moment (long after the lights are flashing -- there are no gates). We just hope that one more car doesn't try to make it. The drivers don't want to wait for what could be a long one (ours is a short -- 500' -- one). I am always surprised that we don't have more grade crossing accidents in the Twin Cities as there are many very busy crossings.
Not just Chicago and not just urban areas - I have notice 'no engine braking' signs in numerous places - in towns both large and small and including in areas where trucks are required to stop for toll booths.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
My recollection was that the land around Chicago was relatively flat, with the elevation differences between hill and dale being less than 100'. Since the potential energy of dropping 100' is less than the kinetic energy of stopping from 60MPH, the issue with banning engine braking would be one of brake wear and not safety. On the other hand, the brake shoe dust is probably an environmental hazard (copper bearing brake pads are in the process of being banned in parts of Calif).
Where engine braking is a safety issue is in long downgrades, with drops of several hundred feet or more.
- Erik
I've noticed that the truck noise factor in several Chicago suburbs has been addressed by local ordinances which banned engine braking by trucks. I've often wondered if such ordinances are safety hazards.
I vote that indeed you did!
The UP main' in Omaha is about to be abandoned; we, U.S. in the Paul Harrr-vV definition, don't have enough regulations or laws.
That claim in a sale's "pitch" should be at least a "foul ball" if not an "out" or an "ejection."
Frawd, frod, FRAUD, it's that no matter how you spell it. Why can't that statement be criminal? Another regulation or law?
And my home is a quarter mile south and a 150 ft above the "upgrade" track, and about nearly a mile from the down grade track and about a 1 and a half miles from Int. 80 on the west slope on the climbing side of the Sierra Nevada.
Noise: Run 8 upgrade. Squealing brake shoes, DB's screaming, "whistling" for Luther and Auburn Ravine crossings.
Our real estate seller never diminished the noise when he attempted to sell us what we bought.
Further discussing: the "Jake Brake" popping wakes me, but, maybe it's my cat shuffling on my bod', trucker's, severe downgrade, watcha' gonna" do? Ignore the sign reading NO JAKE BRAKES PLEASE?
Jake Brakes.....1961 to 1964, I found my way across the country on my Union due's Receipts, and a Condr. out of Sparks, carried me from Ogden,
In a 'Dome" I sat across the aisle from two men who, after I was asked about my experience and technical knowledge; I was asked about its, the Jake Brake, aplicability to locomotives.
They asked back about DB regulation. ' Told them it was gradulated, timely in anticipation and that it was very precisely anticipated over long distances; That the "Jake Brake" converted an engine from a graduated pulling power device into a braking device that is "on" or "off.".....don't know what I said that might have.....destinity?
We, they, Clessie Cummins, father and son, were traveling east, me home, and them to the Jacob's chuck manufacturer in (RI) The infancy of the Jacob's Engine Brake.
Did I influence transportation's future?
One, if there is a railroad track there is potential for trains and noise increases or decreases. Two, noise levels vary by foliage growth, seasonal changes, new equipment and results of new applied physics. Three, nobody noticed until somebody brought the matter up. I remember in my home town where the railroad first arrived around 1840 and the train traffic grew, another line was built and this resulted in more traffic and then thing began to wane with no long distance passenger trains and no freight trains, But hourly commuter traffic has continued and thrives with fewer trains. But the blowing of grade crossing bent somebody out of shape, a Newbie who became a Nimby. And the mayor of the town, a lifetime resident, took on the railroad on behalf of the new voters as if it was all new to him! Today, the constant din raising into the hills from the Interstate coupled with the holding patterns for the major airports 25 to 40 miles away is louder and more constant than anything a week of rail traffic of 1950 ever produced. It's all perception and not really a new thing.
RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.
Boyd There was an article in Mondays Minneapolis Star Tribune of people in the north metro "who live near the CP or CN tracks",,,,, complaining about more noise from increased rail traffic. Do the RRs pay one person a nice salary to answer the phones from these people? I could just imagine the replies to callers: did you see RR tracks near your house before you bought it?
There was an article in Mondays Minneapolis Star Tribune of people in the north metro "who live near the CP or CN tracks",,,,, complaining about more noise from increased rail traffic. Do the RRs pay one person a nice salary to answer the phones from these people? I could just imagine the replies to callers:
did you see RR tracks near your house before you bought it?
This thread and the initial post concerned increased noise levels. Folks may have known full well there was a rail line nearby when they bought a house one to twenty years earlier and were just fine with the traffic and its accompanying noise level But what about double or triple the traffic level or even more? Totally different matter, not so facilely dismissed as NIMBYism.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
There are specific ways to sound-isolate the interior of houses, and it isn't rocket science or costing putting a man on the mon. Double-glazing with storm windows, air-condidtining-central heating, gasketed heavy doors, etc. Lot of people lead happy lives while living in the main flight paths of airports all over North America. For a local problem pull the websites of the National Council of Acoustical Consultants and the Institute of Noise Control Engineering and hire a nearby consultant for a half-day consulting. Should run beween half a grand to a grand. Personally, I would recommend a Board Certified Member of the Institute of Noise Control Engineering. If he also belong to NCAC, even better.
You probably did.
In a 'Dome" i sat across the aisle from two men who, after I was asked about my experience and technical knowledge; I had asked about its, the Jake Brake, apllicability to locomotives.
They asked back about regulation. That it was gradulated, timely in anticipation and that it was very precisely anticipated over long distances; That the "Jake Brake" converted an engine from a graduated pulling power device into a braking device that is "on" or "off.".....don't know what I said that might have.....destinity?
We, they, father and son of Clessie Cummins, were traveling east, me home, and them to the Jacob's chuck manufacturer in (RI) The infancy of the Jacob's Engine Brake.
when i lived near the new england dragway we went thru this & people would complain about the noise & want to shut it down, well at the meeting they would explain to the home owners that they were will to shut down but that they home owners would soak up the taxes for the land & the fire dept that the dragway paid for & well suddenly it always ok to continue for another 5 or so seasons lol
Too bad we aren't in the habit of "test driving" houses - you know, stay for several days in the house, to get a feel for the neighborhood.
Then, again, that would probably kill some sales...
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
....and the real estate industry counts on this. They (real state agents, a sizable number of them) want their 4-7% commission without working for it or understanding it (right up there with used car salesmen)... Also, title insurance ain't all it's cracked up to be. When the title company screws up, regularly from what we see, they get really squirrely when having to pay for damages.
Norm48327 And the beat goes on, and on and on, ad infinitum. People move close to the airport and complain about the noise. They move to farm country and complain about the smell of cow manure. The unwary are the ones who get trapped, but it of their own doing. * * * * Some of the worst offenders in this game are real estate agents, some of whom will tell a prospective buyer anything about a nearby railroad that's necessary to make a sale. I can't even begin to count the complaints I've seen about rail traffic based on misrepresentations made by real estate agents when people bought their homes. For example, a few years ago, a bunch of people in a subdivision on the west side of Omaha complained about rail traffic on nearby rail line because their real estate agent(s) had told them there was hardly any traffic on the line and it would likely be abandoned. The rail line was the UP's east-west mainline, one of the busiest railroads in the country. This kind of thing happens all of the time. Unfortunately, people don't know as much about railroads as they do about highways or airports, so they believe what they are told.
And the beat goes on, and on and on, ad infinitum. People move close to the airport and complain about the noise. They move to farm country and complain about the smell of cow manure. The unwary are the ones who get trapped, but it of their own doing.
* * * *
Some of the worst offenders in this game are real estate agents, some of whom will tell a prospective buyer anything about a nearby railroad that's necessary to make a sale. I can't even begin to count the complaints I've seen about rail traffic based on misrepresentations made by real estate agents when people bought their homes. For example, a few years ago, a bunch of people in a subdivision on the west side of Omaha complained about rail traffic on nearby rail line because their real estate agent(s) had told them there was hardly any traffic on the line and it would likely be abandoned. The rail line was the UP's east-west mainline, one of the busiest railroads in the country. This kind of thing happens all of the time. Unfortunately, people don't know as much about railroads as they do about highways or airports, so they believe what they are told.
Norm48327 "As an aside, the lot was once home to one of Henry Ford's "Village Industries," which is why old-timers still refer to it as the "carburetor plant." You just made me feel old.
"As an aside, the lot was once home to one of Henry Ford's "Village Industries," which is why old-timers still refer to it as the "carburetor plant."
You just made me feel old.
Dan
ROSBORNE68 Maybe the real estate people can start advertising in "Trains Magazine". Trackside homes with a great view of the railroad tracks with plenty of trains. Start marketing new homes to rail fans.
Maybe the real estate people can start advertising in "Trains Magazine". Trackside homes with a great view of the railroad tracks with plenty of trains. Start marketing new homes to rail fans.
That's a great idea. Most sales people would shy away from homes located near tracks, so this might be an opportunity for someone.
King, NC.
Yes, MC, Ed Quillen has an excellent thesis. I have long wondered why people who have their houses built in the floodplains of rivers expect to be reimbursed when their houses are flooded. I had not thought of those who build flammable houses in places where fires could come upon them. The same goes for those who build on the Outer Bank of North Carolina--hurricanes do come along there, and wreak great havoc.
I am thankful that I live a little over a mile high (above the smog level) in Salt Lake City; of course, if the water reservoir which is even higher should be ruptured---.
Johnny
Another Ed Quillen "stupid zone".....I'll go get the orange diamond advanced warning signs out....
http://www.edquillen.com/eq1998/19980531p.html
http://www.edquillen.com/eq2002/20020526p.html
Along with the real estate agents, mix in liberal quantities of political hacks, rubber-tired engineers, developers and "me firsters". Season to suit. Call it "ambiance" and move on.
The bottom line is that the result of a grade crossing "event" that is serious cannot be reversed. But there are noise control technologies that any home owner can employ to insure that his bedroom facing the tracks still gives him a restful nights sleep. There are many many people living in the main flight paths of airport runways that face the same problem.
I lived within that block of a R.R. for 15 years -- as a grownup -- and they couldn't run enough trains for me. But we railfans are never in such a minority as on this issue!
I'd buy close to a rail line. No, not on top of it or within 15 ft. of it... but you know within a block of it. And homes near the tracks aren't that much cheaper really. It might make 5% difference on the price of the home. But really the cheapest homes (at least here in Canada) are no where near any rail tracks. If you're willing to live in a remote area you can get a nice home for 30K or less...a home that would cost you half a million in most big cities.
Talk about a no-win situation. Developers would build ON the railroad right of way if they could get air rights. (They know they can sell their houses to some poor chump who can't afford any better.) The political subdivision -- city or county -- in charge of zoning, greedy for new property-tax dollars, would let them do it.
That's how these situations come into being -- every day, all over the country.
Buy them earplugs if it's up to the railroads to solve these issues created by people that build and move close to a crossing but don't want the sound.
Railroads seem to always have these problems were they can't really win. The neighbors are complaining about the noise right now, but if the Railroad isn't allowed to use the horns, then someone will probably get hit and sue the Railroad saying that they didn't soun the horn to warn the person, and the neighbors will really get on the railroad for hitting the person.
When the people bought the house they knew the Railroad was there, and the Railroad can run as many trains as they want. It would be like buying a house next to a four lane highway, and complaining about noise levels when it is widened to eight lanes, and more traffic travels by.
If I was on of the Railroad officials, I would hold a press conference and explain that the only reason the train blows the horn is for safety reasons, to alert everyone. I would explain that those who want a ban on the horns are potentially putting lives at risk. Maybe say that a mother driving her two children to school turns around to look at her two kids and doesn't see the crossing gates come down, without te horn being sounding, she would collide with the train possibly killing everyone in the car, and giving the engineer emotional trama, however with the horn being sounded, te family is saved. I would explain how the Railroads #1 priority is safety, and safety is always put first. That would defiantally win over the hearts and minds.
Firelock76 Hi John! Yeah, I can't explain it either, but I know what I heard. Ghost trains maybe? Nah, ghost trains would have steam whistles. Wayne
Hi John!
Yeah, I can't explain it either, but I know what I heard.
Ghost trains maybe? Nah, ghost trains would have steam whistles.
Wayne
Old enough to remember those steam whistles well. On a quiet evening the engineers could certainly make them seem lonely and ghostly.
Norm
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.