Why hood forward

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

Most eastern railroads set up their first-generation road-switchers to operate long hood forward. Phelps-Dodge also set up its low-short-hood GP9's (the first factory built chop noses) to operate long hood forward. N&W's SD40's in the 6073-6207 series had the low short hood but had single controls and were set up to run long hood forward.

Dual controls are an expensive option so they are relatively uncommon.

[edblysard]

It makes not one bit of difference which way the locomotive faces, they run just as well either way.
As for more air, no, not really, the rad fans pull the air in, the motion or direction of the locomotive dosnt matter, even on the old SW's with the rad up front and upright, it didnt make any difference.
The only reason, now days, for a locomotive to have a designated front is to give both the engineer and the conductor a common point of refrence.
If you have a cut of cars, coupled to the long hood of a locomotive,(the short hood is the "front") and I am on the end of the cut, and want the movement to come my direction, should I tell the engineer to back up, or come ahead?

Ed[:)]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ericsp

QUOTE: Originally posted by Terry_C

I heard that locomotives running hood forward have more power. It that true?

keep asking keep learning

I am not a railroader, but I have never heard that nor does it makes sense to me. The diesel engine can produce the same amount of power regardless of which end of the locomotive is up front. The traction motors are designed to spend much time turning in either direction, so they would be designed to run equally as well regardless of which way they are turning.

I can think of something, but it is a stretch. If a switch engine is running with the cab at the rear (which would mean it is running front first) and with no locomotives in front of it, it could probably take in more air which reduces the chances of overheating, therefore it may be able to safely produce more power than if it were running backwards or had another locomotive in front of it.

[SALfan]

QUOTE: Originally posted by AntonioFP45

Norfolk and Western and the Southern Railway both had numbers of units running with the long hood forward, especially high nose units. Was definetly a plus as far as head on collision protection.

I do wonder if any of these units are still around on Class II or shortline railroads. When I was in Georgia, I noticed a group of high nosed 2nd generation GEs and EMDs on the Georgia Central Railroad in Lyons. It was easy to tell that some of these were ex-Norfolk Southern units.

You've been to Lyons? Never thought I'd hear that on the forum. Not many people go to (or even through) that area since the interstates took away the Florida-tourist traffic.

[ericsp]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Terry_C

I heard that locomotives running hood forward have more power. It that true?

keep asking keep learning

I am not a railroader, but I have never heard that nor does it makes sense to me. The diesel engine can produce the same amount of power regardless of which end of the locomotive is up front. The traction motors are designed to spend much time turning in either direction, so they would be designed to run equally as well regardless of which way they are turning.

I can think of something, but it is a stretch. If a switch engine is running with the cab at the rear (which would mean it is running front first) and with no locomotives in front of it, it could probably take in more air which reduces the chances of overheating, therefore it may be able to safely produce more power than if it were running backwards or had another locomotive in front of it.

[Anonymous]

I heard that locomotives running hood forward have more power. It that true?

keep asking keep learning

[Allen Jenkins]

After twelve hours at the throttle of a locomotive set-up as single directional, short hood forward, running backward, which means the engineer is setting with seat-back to the window, body facing toward the left side of the cab, turning his head to the long hood end, and having to turn his head back one-hundred-eighty degrees, to view the controller, the man has a ligit excuse for medical leave of absence.
Everybody will do what he has to do, everyone else follows the Brotherhood.acj.

[Kozzie]

Alco GE
Was there much variety of the types of passenger trains that ran behind the Delaware and Hudson RD2s? Were the RS2s in that same classy livery of blue and yellow like the PAs?

Dave
(Kozzie)

[Anonymous]

I've seen Conrail units (before and after the Split) running long hood foward.

[Kozzie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CoertSmit

Thanks a lot for your answers, I didn't expect it to have so many replies I'm now starting to r\ead about the Road Switchers as suggested by Kozzie. It's getting more interesting with every reply.

Hey CoertSmit, [:)] I hope that older post will help. I've benefited a lot from looking at past posts, as I'm sure a lot of others who are lilke me and don't know too much but are willing to learn. [;)]

Dave
(Kozzie)

[ShaunCN]

CN's GP9's where built with high hoods and ran long hood forward, now all the hoods have been chopped but only certain calsses of GP9's have had theri controls moved for sjort hood operation, the others have short hoods but the controls are still set up for long hood forward operation.

[jchnhtfd]

Just to add to the confusion... a lot of the CN family (CN, GT, GTW, DW, CV, etc.) ran the GP7's and 9's long hood forward for years... I suppose safety had something to do with it, but if I were pressed I'd have put it down to 'tradition'!

[Anonymous]

Thanks a lot for your answers, I didn't expect it to have so many replies I'm now starting to r\ead about the Road Switchers as suggested by Kozzie. It's getting more interesting with every reply.

[mvlandsw]

QUOTE: Originally posted by route_rock

Ok N&W and SOU were long hoods first.But who else?Yes it was for protection and I rember a MR article how to build a SOU SD40-2 and the f on the frame was at the long hood end.I dont think N&W dropped that practise until late in the 90's but dont hold me to the time line.

B&O ran the long hood forward. One of the reasons NS changed was the exhaust fumes that enter the cab when running long hood forward. The GE wide noses are especially bad in this respect.

[mvlandsw]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dehusman

Remember many first generation diesels had high short hoods so you really didn't have any advantage to running short hood first.

Dave H.

Even though both hoods were high, visibility around the short hood was much better than around the long hood.

[route_rock]

Ok N&W and SOU were long hoods first.But who else?Yes it was for protection and I rember a MR article how to build a SOU SD40-2 and the f on the frame was at the long hood end.I dont think N&W dropped that practise until late in the 90's but dont hold me to the time line.

[DSchmitt]

Southern Pacifc had both single control stand and two control stand road units. The two control stand units were mainly used for commuter trains, but could be used on freight, the single stand units were freight. The front of an SP road loco was the end with the wings. The dual control units had wings on both ends.

[espeefoamer]

I find it ironic that the two railroads,N&W and SOU.,that ran thier locos long hood forward,for crew protection, also ordered thier engines with high short hoods.They said it was for crew protection.

[Kozzie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CoertSmit

Recently a model railroading friend came up to me with a model of his NS dash-8 with two crewmembers in it facing the hood. This started a discusion of why it was that certain railroads were riding their engines with the hood in front, I can't imagine this will improve visability . Who will help solving this 'mystery'.

Hi CoertSmit [:)]

You might find helpful the replies I got to a similar post I made on April 4 this year called: Early Alco road switchers ran long end first?

The response from the Forum crew was terrific [:)] [:D] I sure learned a lot from what everyone said about the practice of running locos long hood first.
I reckon you'd find their comments quite interesting. [;)][:)]

Dave
(Kozzie)

[dehusman]

Remember many first generation diesels had high short hoods so you really didn't have any advantage to running short hood first.

Dave H.

[Allen Jenkins]

The Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers, had a "must" rule for years, however, it was recended in the '90's.
I've seen both the GP60, and the SD70 running long hood forward, in the late ninties, though they were built single direction, short hood forward, as opposed to bi-directional, single controller, long hood forward, with the controller turned as arbfbe related.
Running a train simulation, I've found long hood forward to be a heck of a disadvantage, though it looks neat in the tracking view. I'm constantly moving back and forth from one side of the cab to the other!
I've heard the Seaboard Coast Line engineers, cat-call over the prospect of "running backward," and then on second thought, acknowledge the saftey factor.
Enjoy Your Hoods! ACJ.

[enr2099]

QUOTE: Originally posted by AntonioFP45


I do wonder if any of these units are still around on Class II or shortline railroads.

The Esquimalt and Nanaimo Railway had two ex-Southern GP38's, ex-SOU 2796 and 2813. They became surplus in 2001 and went to the Puget Sound and Pacific Railroad in Washington State.

[AntonioFP45]

Norfolk and Western and the Southern Railway both had numbers of units running with the long hood forward, especially high nose units. Was definetly a plus as far as head on collision protection.

I do wonder if any of these units are still around on Class II or shortline railroads. When I was in Georgia, I noticed a group of high nosed 2nd generation GEs and EMDs on the Georgia Central Railroad in Lyons. It was easy to tell that some of these were ex-Norfolk Southern units.

[gabe]

I think the Norfolk and Western abandoned this practice long before the formation of NS, but they were one of the last railways to stop runing hood forward.

I find it ironic that one of the last railways to adopt the safety cab was also one of the last railways to stop runing hood forward.

Other than that, I think Larry nailed the question.

Gabe

[arbfbe]

Some railroads and crewmembers felt it improved crew protection in the event of a collision with another train, rock slides and at grade crossings. Other railroads installed control stands on both sides of the cab so they didn't have to run "backwards" out of tight canyons on branchlines. The NS units have only one control stand but speed recorders on the front and back wall of the cab so it can be seen by the engineer operating with either end of the unit leading. The angle or the control stand is more parallet to the rail to make long hood foreward operations more comfortable.

Personal note:

One of my Great, great whatever grandfathers was Garret Zeger. Family lines go toward Sager and Garretson. Any of those families still common in Holland?
[e-mail]

[tree68]

Think steam engines and collision protection.

In the early days of the road switcher, some railroads ran their D-E locos long hood forward, resembling a steam locomotive. IIRC, it tended to be those who held on to steam to the bitter end. There was also a school of thought that said practice provided better protection to the crew, particularly in the case of grade crossing accidents. Some locos were built with "dual control," with two control stands so the engine could be run either end foward.

Several things likely conspired to end the practice - the higher hoods (remember that the RS series had a fairly low long hood), and longer hoods, both of which severely limit forward visibility, and the newer wide "safety" cabs. I'm sure reduced manning may have played a role.

And I'm sure I've missed something. It'll turn up.

[Anonymous]

Recently a model railroading friend came up to me with a model of his NS dash-8 with two crewmembers in it facing the hood. This started a discusion of why it was that certain railroads were riding their engines with the hood in front, I can't imagine this will improve visability . Who will help solving this 'mystery'.