Diesel Fuel/locomotives

[Jordan6]

I've been working at an excavation company for some time now and have learned that there is two kinds of diesel fuel. (Off-road or regular) The off-road fuel is for use ONLY in off-road equipment such as bulldozers, tractors, excavators, and so on. It is dyed red so if you get caught with it in your semi or pickup you'll get fined big time. So what's the difference, you may be wondering? The off road diesel doesn't have road tax on it, which makes it much cheaper to buy than regular diesel.
Anyway, I was wondering if the railroads use off-road diesel or regular.

[Overmod]

This will give you a start on answering:

http://www.epa.gov/cleandiesel/

I believe railroad fuel is sourced from distributors ahead of the point where the different grades are dyed. Railroads do pay a tax per gallon (there have been discussions on this forum about the 'deficit reduction tax' railroads pay, for example) but in general since there's no question locomotives won't run on the public road system there's no need to check them for 'on-road' fuel, and no need for railroad operators to pay the extra taxes for it.

As the EPA site indicates, locomotives with advanced pollution-control systems won't do well with high-sulfur-content diesel. On-road diesel, at present, is required to be low-sulfur; in at least some jurisdictions, off-road can continue to be high-sulfur (and as a result is cheaper than just the difference in tax amount, as less 'new' refining processes need to be performed on much of the high-sulfur crude stock to produce it).

Hopefully someone from a smaller short line can indicate whether locomotives fueled from distributors' trucks receive a specialized blend of diesel, or perhaps a blend using 'home heating oil', rather than the dyed ag diesel.

Interesting how little chemistry is required to knock down that red dye...or perhaps I shouldn't say that...

[kevarc]

While not a shortline, the utiltiy I work for has FM and Norden diesels and we use the offroad diesel. We looked at using the lower sulphur diesel, but the cost was quite a bit higher, about a dime or so more/gallon. May not seem like much, but when you use 120,000 gallons a year or more , it adds up.

[adrianspeeder]

Yep, buy ag. diesel for the tractor, and only difference is about a buck20 a gallon of taxes. Fine in PA for burning ag. diesel in my truck on the roads is almost 10000bucks. Ouch.

Adrianspeeder

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Fine in PA for burning ag. diesel in my truck on the roads is almost 10000bucks.

That's a heavy fine! I've heard anywhere from $500-$1,000 in NC. Talked to some farmers from the big tobacco and cotton farms down east this summer while in Raleigh that have been fined for running off-road diesel in their Ford PSDs and still do it after being caught! They say it's still a heck of a lot cheaper for the whole farm and in the long run, even after fines. Still expensive in any case.

[Anonymous]

I noticed that diesel is more expensive than gas at my local station. Maybe the railroads could mix some gasoline in the diesel to lower their fuel costs.

keep asking keep learning

[Overmod]

Imho, putting gasoline in locomotive diesel would just make it stop running (you'd think it would explode, but it doesn't -- the gasoline is volatile, and absorbs so much heat from the charge that it doesn't ignite).

Diesel always gets more expensive in the winter, because home heating oil competes for the available refining capacity and suitable feedstock. I don't know whether that increase is reflected in locomotive-fuel prices to the railroads; I would expect they have reasonably long-term fixed-price supply contracts, or have factored seasonal increases into their operating budgets.

Mark, where in Arkansas are you?

[Anonymous]

Diesel fuel also comes in #1 and #2 grades, hmmm which one is for locomotives?

[Overmod]

As it is, #1 is only useful for temperatures considerably lower than 32 F in the usual truck diesels, and I'd expect its seasonal usefulness for locomotives to be somewhat limited. Its heat content per gallon is lower, too.

[Anonymous]

So, #2 it is. Sounds like #1 is a lighter weight or specific gravity then.

[oltmannd]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Overmod

As it is, #1 is only useful for temperatures considerably lower than 32 F in the usual truck diesels, and I'd expect its seasonal usefulness for locomotives to be somewhat limited. Its heat content per gallon is lower, too.

RRs use #2, 40 Cetane rating. Typically, they will spec out a winter blend that has a higher pour and cloud point. Suppliers will usually blend #1 with the #2 to meet the spec. Even with the winter blend, the RRs rely on fuel oil preheaters and other schemes like "hot wells" in the fuel tank to keep things flowing.

I would expect gasoline would tra***he fuel injection equipment in a RR diesel. It wouldn't supply enough lubrication to keep the barrel/plunger assy from scoring.