The survival of super-power steam

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Overmod

WHERE in Northern California is it running? (!!!???)

This may be Tilden Park Steam Trains in the Oakland hills. It's been ages since I've been there, but somewhere in the Oakland Hills people run their home built model steam engines.

Once I saw a 300 + pound guy sitting on the tender running his engine on 6 or 7 inch track.

[tpatrick]

It wasn't super power, but the last surviving Pennsy I-1 is owned by the Western New York Railway Historical Society in Hamburg, NY. It has been cosmetically restored, and according to their website could be made operational, although there are no plans to do so. A recent article in the Jamestown Post-Journal, covering the Erie-Lackawanna railroaders convention, mentioned a plan to move the I-1 to Jamestown to be used in excursion operations on the Western New York and Pennsylvania RR. That is the former Erie mainline. I am skeptical of the report. I think a local foamer was likely dreaming out loud to the reporter. I hope I am wrong.

[dldance]

As I recall, all the Big Boys that are on display status were carefully prepped before being place on display with the possibility of reactivation in mind. In fact, a friend of mine reportedly observed UP doing a pressure test on one in a park using a portable steam boiler in the late 1960's. If oil keeps climbing in price they may need them.

dd

[jchnhtfd]

Gabe -- sadly, so far as I know, the Hiawathas (I presume you mean the first four engines specifically built for the Hiawathas -- two really fabulous Atlantics and two Hudsons) are all scrapped. Ditto the NYC Niagaras.

[Anonymous]

There is one 4-6-6-6 that I know of, but it's O-gauge 2-rail scale. It was built by the late John Armstrong for his Canandaigua Southern Railway in his basement at Silver Spring, MD, and it is a HORSE. It has a humongous tender with two 8-wheel trucks, and one of those good old Kendrick and Davis motors with about a 4-inch magnet stack, and weighs 22 pounds. John called it his "Super-Allegheny".

When he opened the throttle, it was either going to pull 'em, pull 'em apart, or roll the track up underneath it . . .

Old Timer

[Overmod]

WHERE in Northern California is it running? (!!!???)

Are there pictures, a club membership, what do you know?

Is this, by any chance, the model that was placed on display in GCT at one time?

Now, if models are acceptable, there IS, in fact, a running T1 in steam -- courtesy of Ed Woodings:

http://users.rcn.com/borders/woodings/

(in case you don't believe it's an honorary original!)

And then, of course, there's this:

http://www.discoverlivesteam.com/magazine/2003_1005_114104AA.jpg

which is also in 1.5" scale.

Many others are out there -- I just want to recognize these two.

[espeefoamer]

One NYC Hudson exsits, sort of.Tacked on to the end of an order of hudsons( I think it was the J2)NYC had ALCo build an 1 1/2 inch scale(18 inch guage) model hudson as a retirement gift for a railroad executive.The loco is now running in northern California.
Since this engine was built by ALCo at the end of an order of hudsons would this count?

[rrnut282]

2-8-4 NKP765 is in the final stages of a MAJOR rebuilding. the boiler was hydrstatically tested in July and Sept 8 was placed back on the running gear. New bearings, ash pan, seats, lubrication lines, cab roof and more are being installed. Their goal was to be steaming by Oct, but it sounds like Christmas is more realistic.

[Anonymous]

IRM has a number of other big steam locos. They do have a CB&Q S4 class Hudson and as a 5 year old kid, I saw some of these still running maybe even this particular one. I know now that they were used on holiday mail & express trains right up to the end. Unfortunately(?) back then('54-'55) I was more interested in the shiny Zephyrs(IRM has a complete Nebraska Zephyr).

IRM also has Milw 265, an Alco 4-8-4 twin to 261. Other Northerns are ATSF 2903 and GTW 6323. In the really big but not steam category, they have UP Gas Turbine 18, one of the 3-unit versions. That one's getting a fresh coat of paint and I wonder how many gallons of U.P. yellow it will need.

The full steam roster is at:
http://www.irm.org/roster/steam.html

[feltonhill]

There were no 4-6-6-6's built, so you're probably referring to C&O's 2-6-6-6's. Two survive, one at the transportation musuem in Baltimore (some pronounce it Ballimer) and the other at the Henry Ford Museum/Greenfield Village in Detroit. The one in Balto was originally located at Wasena Park in Roanoke, and moved to Baltimore sometime after a flood in 1987. It is displayed outside and based on photos looks pretty good. The Allegheny in Detroit was moved there ca 1957 and is displayed inside, on tracks imbedded in a polished wood floor. Needless to say it's in excellent shape cosmetically, if a bit dusty.

I believe the site steamlocomotive.com (Wes Barris) has a list of surviving locomotives, however you choose to classify them. Some of the statistics are not entirely accurate but it's a good collection of info.

[Overmod]

I'm almost sure he means the PRR locomotive.

There is a 'comparable' 4-8-4 in Australia (styling inspired by the T1 class), of which two survivors exist (520, running, and 523 in a museum)

[ajmiller]

By T1 do you mean the PRR T1 4-4-4-4 Duplex, or the Reading T1 4-8-4 Northern? I know there are still some Reading T1's left.

[Anonymous]

N&W's older 2-8-8-2s, which include the IRM 2050, were built with 57" drivers. At some point they were fitted with 1/2" thicker tires making them 58". This increased the mileage between tire replacements, as they could be turned about one additional time before replacing, and also reduced the possibility of tire loosening during heavy use of the engine brake, sometimes required by operational factors. Thicker tires have a better chance of not overheating.

Old Timer

[Overmod]

James Hefner has an extensive listing of Surviving World Steam Locomotives on CD. (He is extending this to certain other kinds of steam apparatus now!)

It is difficult to beat UP 3985 for either power or grandeur. 844 is not far behind. Neither is 4449 or Cotton Belt 819, or Santa Fe 4-8-4s of various kinds. Pacifics like 3713 or 1361 are no slouches either. I would consider Frisco 1522 in this category.

In the non-operating category, a Google search will answer your Allegheny question in short order (but I've been assured from a bunch of places that it's not likely one of these will steam again). Big Boys likewise. Be aware there's one surviving SP cab-forward!

Non-articulated power: see the Hudson in Topeka if you want an example of very large passenger power. The next best thing to a NYC Hudson is a Mohawk, and one of those has been preserved in what I understand to be good condition. For a good light 4-8-4, see 576 in Nashville (now under a new display shed, and AFAIK without a fence separating you from her!). Lots of surviving C&O power aside from articulateds, including lots of Berkshires, a streamlined Hudson, and Ross Rowland's 614. A Niagara of sorts (a Mexican one) at New Hope...

Too many good locomotives to mention in one place, and I don't mean to leave anybody out.

[Krazykat112079]

The Illinois Railway Museum has N&W 2050 Class Y3a 2-8-8-2 Mallet on display. More information on the N&W Y engines can be found at http://www.steamlocomotive.com/articulated/nwy.html. I remember distinctly looking up at those huge 58" drivers and being in awe. [:D] I really can't say what its running condition is, but I personally have never seen it in action.

Interestingly enough, IRM says the drivers are 58", but the standard spec, from what I have read, for the Y3a was 57". I wonder if the 2050 was refitted with 58" or originally built with them.

[gabe]

You are right, I should have been more precise (not to mention spelling the name of some of the locomotives right--it can be tough to work in a post heading in a ten-minute period you have allotted for yourself).

I was thinking the list would be of about 100 locomotives. I shouldn't have called it super power steam. As Mark notes, there are certainly locomotives that don't fit that classification that I would want on the list. In the same breath though, I didn't want to limit it by wheel arangement. For instance, the Milwaukee Road's Hiawatha precursor Atlantics would defnitely be locomotives I would want on the list if they were around anywhere. Finally, I didn't want to use a year designation, because there are some pre-1930s locomotives that I think would be worth of the list--yet I didn't want to suffer the avalanch resulting from all of the locomotives that would be included if I were to use a date before 1934.

I guess the best I can say is, limit locomotives to ones that have something special about them and are reasonably large. Boy, that isn't good. If a fellow attorney wrote a phrase so ill-defined and vague as that, I would be laughing at it too hard to insult it properly. But, given the above problems, that is the best I can do.

The reason I think getting random locomotives on here would be better than the much more expediant process of running to Borders and buying a book, is some people would inevitably include a back ground story about the locomotive that I would never be able to find in a book. Something like that would make the locomotive more special if I ever got to see it.

Well, if you can understand that, you are probably a better interpreter than I, but it is the best I can do.

Gabe

P.S. As many NYC Hudsons as there were, I can't believe they didn't save one. Oh, the calamity. And no T-1s! I can't believe no one had the foresight to think how that would cause awe in young children while looking at it in a museum.

[dldance]

With maintenance and insurance issues - I suspect that the list of steamable locomotives is changing all the time - with most of the shrinkage in the super-power category. Thus informal updates to the book would be very interesting.

As for diesels - UP DD40's are on display in Pocatello and North Platt.

[espeefoamer]

There are no NYC hudsons,and no T1s.[:(][:(!]
As to Super Power steam,NKP 759 ran in the late 60s, and 765 ran more recently.I don't know the current status of this engine.

[gabe]

(inspired by the time machine post--this may be the closest thing we have)

I realize there is probably a book or internet cite on this, but, it is more fun to get this infomration via talking to you guys (and girls), because it invites comments/stories about the locomotives and creates richer dialog.

I would like to compile a list of surviving steam locomotives. Please don't send me a list of 100 if you happen to be the person who knows where every locomotive happens to be (that would be too easy and would mute possible comments that would likely be posted if we went one or two locomotives at a time). Also, please don't respond unless you can tell me a litttle about the locomotive, preferably: its location, whether it is active at all (capable of steaming), and its general condition (could not light its fires without an act from Congress v. just shovel in some coal and add some water and you are off).

I will compile the list and post it weekly, including any information/stories posted with the locomotives. I figure this will help people like me who like to take rail sojourns and have a destination when doing so.

To start this off (I am afraid the answer is no):

1. Does anyone know if there are any surviving Hiawathas, Nigras, Hudsons, or T-1s?

2. I am told there are some surviving 4-6-6-6s. Does anyone know where they are and what their condition is?

3. If you know of a particularly impressive super power steamer please respond.

Thanks for playing and I hope someone besides me finds this useful.

Gabe

P.S. If you know of any parks where diesles are on display, could you include that as well?