In this age of security

[Anonymous]

I've noticed many threads going through about security on railroads and railfans being questioned by security and police officials of late. Well last night I felt that I was doing my part for the safety and security.

While waiting for a westbound at Morris, MN I noticed numerous cinder blocks, large metal items, and various pieces of lumber placed on the main track right in town. Now the train probably would have pushed that right out of the way, but one can never tell. So I took some time to move all the objects off of the track just in case.

This leads me to something that I've thought of quite a bit of late. While the railroads are vast and very, very difficult to secure like some would like them to be, what a great resourse some of us are to the industry, a second set of eyes watching for "suspicious" things, people, etc. And while I understand how I can be seen as suspicious for taking pictures of trains, or being around railroad operations (always careful to stay on public property), it's a shame that we've come to a point in this country where a railfan is seen as suspicious or up to something just because it's not a widely known hobby.

All that being said, if I'm asked to leave an area, I happly will, if I am quesitioned, I totally understand and do not hold it against the person asking me in the least. I just have to learn to live with this.

Take this as you will, coming from someone who lives in greater Minnesota, maybe not the biggest target out there for someone, but the idea is still the same.

Thoughts?

[Overmod]

110% right.

I think that many railroad locations have always been averse to people trespassing on their facilities -- let alone to people observed committing overt vandalism. All that happened with the age of 'counterterrorism' is more of an excuse to roll the cops before, not after, the actual damage or injury occurs.

While I'm no stranger to 'visiting' railroad ROWs to watch trains or take pictures, I have no argument with cops who are upset. Remember that many of these guys aren't seasoned 'police professionals' -- and can easily get upset or riled when faced with the uncertain situation of somebody where he or she shouldn't be. Not that they'd shoot you (even on NJT!) ... just that the jitters naturally turn into a bit of anger when actual conversation relieves some of the initial contact anxiety...

[Anonymous]

points well taken, thanks!

I to have no beef with police who are wondering what in the world I could be doing and invesigate further, I guess the point I was getting at was one that the very people they usually question, are the ones who would most likely report something suspicious or out of place to them.

But on the flip side, I totally understand why I would get questioned and am not at all upset.

I have worked with the local police before when I noticed activity on the rails, and I should have here too, but I knew where the train was, 30 minutes out from where I was. (still no excuse for getting on the line to clean it off) I will involve more parties that are not me next time to save my record and well-being.

[JoeKoh]

Take pics leave footprints.# for railroads are in the van and truck.
and stay safe
Joe

[Junctionfan]

Sometimes I have had to take stuff of the tracks because a train is coming and there isn't enough time for me to get to a phone. I'm just glad I haven't had to remove stuff that has been too heavy. That's when you have to run up ahead and wave red flags or something like that.

[MP57313]

I've seen small collections of ballast rocks placed on the rails, which I just kicked off with my foot. I've never seen a major pile of stuff like you saw. Agree the best plan of action is to call 911.

Would one make an exception in a remote place with no grade crossings nearby (such as the UP/SP Coast Line west of Santa Barbara)? That is, if it were a small pile of junk would you just remove it yourself, assuming of course you had a clear view of the tracks and were not in imminent danger?

[Junctionfan]

The problem was some bricks. Either I could have moved the stuff real quick or risk 330 derailing, causing a major explosion or at least spill of LPG and ammonia near a neighborhood of family housing. Didn't have too much choice with leaving evidence untouched or not I'm afraid.

[Junctionfan]

No but I should have. I don't know much good it would have though unless they could have dusted for prints on the bricks. That may not have been successful as it was on and off light rain.

[zardoz]

Call the police??!!?? What good would that do? I would tell you the number of times I have seen a cop respond to a complaint from the railraod, but it would beg the question of whether zero is a number!

But unless the objects are real big and/or very dense (such as metal bars) I would not worry too much about a derailment. It actually takes a fair amount of correctly placed dense items to cause worry. I've seen ties placed such that one is across the tracks perpendicular to the rails, with onother tie placed one end between the rails and the other end up on the first tie--sort of a "launch ramp"; the train just snaps the ties.

What is more of a concern is the debris that flies out from under the wheels--THAT can be deadly. One day during track work on the North Line elevated suburban track just north of Chicago, some vandals placed a series of spikes and tie plates on the rails. I hit them going 70mph, and could see these very dense, heavy metal objects flying out from under my train into the streets below, breaking car windows and who knows what else. It was extremely fortunate that no one got hit. A tie plate or spike at 70mph would likely be quite fatal.

Calling the railroad--now THAT is a good idea. That will get something accomplished. But forget the cops! Unless there is a donut shop nearby.

The only time you cannot forget the cops is when you are sitting in a bright red pickup truck, in the middle of the day, out on a county road, not an industry or switch within ten miles, with the tripod set up and the camera sitting on it, when Barney Fife rolls up and asks ya, "What y'all doin', boy?" This is the kind of paranoid stupidity that gives cops a bad name. Now if I was in a dark vehicle, near an industry, at night, I would be the stupid one.

[Anonymous]

zardoz,I myself have to agree you on this one!

[Anonymous]

I have often wondered what it would take to derail a train, though this is the sort of speculation I usually keep pretty much to myself.
When I was a kid and St. Louis still had street cars, my cousin and I would often put a beer can on the rails to watch it get sliced in half. My aunt was okay with that, but when we wanted to put pennies out to be flattened, she said we would cause a derailment and wouldn't let us. Go figure.
Many years later, I got to ride along with a roadmaster in Wichita, Ks., on a stretch of MP track that ran through a neighborhood - nice, middle class - inhabited by little hooligans like I once was.
There, it turned out, the thing was to find rail spikes along the right of way and jam them into the gap between the non-welded rail. I was appalled. That was a long way from pennies, and my aunt would have freaked.

[Junctionfan]

Actually Zardoz the area has at least 4 donut shops in the area. I don't think the police care that much anyways. They seem to be too busy with solving B&Es, assaults and a couple or murders here and there if they aren't responding to the many fender-benders. I saw a cop go into the donut shop and just as he was about to order, he ran out to the car and went on an emergency call.

[Overmod]

At the risk of giving some buffoons ideas: It is not difficult to derail a train with a tie, you wedge it between the rails and it lifts the wheel flanges out of contact. A GG1 was derailed that way many years ago (I believe on a mail train) -- if that could be derailed, I'd imagine any current locomotive could be.

I remember riding the "cab" of an MU train in suburban Philadelphia, and having to stop because someone had put, of all things, a *park bench* on the track. Made for some choice cursin'. It was amazing what sorts of boxes, plastic containers, metal gizmos etc. could be put on the track for these trains to run over.

Speaking of pennies on the rail, our high school railroad club (headed by Karl R. Zimmermann) had its share of what we called 'junior railfans'. One such decided it would be kewl to put a nickel, instead of the traditional penny, on the railhead to let a Metroliner or Clocker flatten it. He had just positioned his coin when a train... 2 E44s and 127 cars of freight ... passed over it. I still remember the look of dismay on his face when he discovered his nickel was now no more than a forged silhouette...

[zardoz]

Certainly not. My point was rather than bother with the cops, just call the railroad. Every time I have called in situations to the dispatcher, they have, in turn, called the cops. I've seen the cops come far faster when the railraod calls them, compared to when I've called them. And calling the dispatcher should CYA should the cops question you.

Also, if it is a dangerous situation, I feel the railroad should be first to be called, so the dispatcher can quickly halt any approaching trains. Besides, either the vandals are going to be waiting to see the results of their actions (and by doing so, will still be in the area when the cops do come), or they are long gone and the cops will be ineffective.

[Anonymous]

If you call the railroad first, they will be calling the cops immediately, anyway.