General public aware of trains? No. I used to be struck by the amount of people who, when learning that I worked for the railroad, would ask me if there were still any steam engines running and did I run them. This would have been as recently as 25 years ago. I would think, haven't they seen a train and did they know anything about what kind of locomotive might be pulling it? Yes, they'd seen trains but were oblivious as to what might be in those cars or what might be making it go. At that time, regular mainline steam had been gone roughly 30 years.
It's been written here by numerous posters that railroads started disappearing from the public consciousness when public interaction disappeared. The passenger trains were removed and factories shipped by truck. It used to be that all sorts of businesses had spurs into them and shipped by rail, a local crew or yard engine would come into the plant and deliver and pull freight cars, there would be people in the plant who would see and talk to the railroaders who did this, folks were aware of railroads and what they did. You don't hardly have this anymore.
As a now-retired railroader, I've been told by lots of folks that I was the only one they'd ever met. It used to be that the railroads were big employers, one might have a family member or a neighbor but that isn't common anymore.
Of course, everyone mentions Amtrak. Amtrak was removed from our town a good twenty years ago now, there were people then who thought that the railroads had closed down with Amtrak's local demise.
No, the general public here is not aware of railroad, other than when the railroads are causing them delay.
BroadwayLion Mookie PS: ETOH was a factor And when did they lower the drinking age? Well, when *I* lived in New York, the drinking age *was* 18! But kids who do not care about express trains probably do not care about the drinking age either. ROAR
Mookie PS: ETOH was a factor And when did they lower the drinking age?
PS: ETOH was a factor
And when did they lower the drinking age?
Well, when *I* lived in New York, the drinking age *was* 18! But kids who do not care about express trains probably do not care about the drinking age either.
ROAR
Not only do they not care about the drinking age, but they have plenty of friends who will help them get their beverages of choice...
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw
He died last night, around 6:30 pm eastern time. He was from Long Island, and he was in the city with some friends to celebrate his 18th birthday. Of course they were aware of trains: they had ridden into the city on the LIRR, and were now headed back to Penn Station for the trip home. The got on the IRT subway at 79th Street, and then realized that they were on the uptown platform and needed to be on the downtown platform.This was on the old section of the IRT, the first part of the subway to be built: there was no way to cross over to the other side without going up to the street and paying another fare.
The decided to walk across the tracks. There were four of them. Two did not go down onto the tracks, one made it across to the other side, and this one did not. He was hit by a north bound number two train as it came around the curve, probably at about 35 miles per hour. It was probably the most gruesome hit yet this year, in a year that will go down in history as having several such incidents each week. Body parts were dismembered and strewn under the length of several cars. It was hard on the train crew, and on the many fire, police, and ems workers on the scene. Several body bags were used to bring the parts up.
Aware of Trains? Yes, they were aware of trains, but not aware enough. I do not know what sort of education people in New York City get about subway safety, on Long Island, it is all about grade crossing safety, but the actions of these people were beyond the pale.
Aware of Trains? It is time for more than that, but maybe the railroads can build on Operation Lifesaver, and together with hospitals, broadcasters, local police, fire and EMS, bring PUBLIC SAFETY into the classrooms. People really do need to know not only about railroad safety, but highway safety, storm safety, electrical safety, fire safety, and public (police/terror) safety. I know that you can get hospital and local authorities into the mix, but they need a strong partner with the resources to pull it all together, and maybe that is something that Railroads could do. They can always use a better public image, they need (from just a legal viewpoint) to be seen as being proactive for safety in their communities. People in communities need to know how emergency services work, what officials are doing or are going to do in any given situation, and how they can best help, even if all that means is to evacuate ones self and family safely.
We are in an information age: information is necessary to keep people safe and to keep society running smoothly. If railroads have advertizing dollars, if they have PR departments, if they have legal departments, then they have many of the elements that are otherwise lacking in public safety. And as always, a good image is always good business.
PS: ETOH was a factor.
I used to live just south of Atlanta. They call it a subway and then tell you it is just not completely underground.
Back here in my hometown in East Tennessee, there are a variety of views. One of our local building suppliers advertises their being rail served to give the customers better prices. Another person told me Norfolk Southern would be ripped up because they can't go all the places a truck can and views it as a complete inevitability that all railroads will be out of business. I have been honked at for stopping at grade crossings with gates down and an approaching train clearly visible, but I have also been honked at for not running red lights... (We have a driving problem here). CSX recently removed the branchline to my town. I asked one of the city councilmen I knew if the city and county were going to attempt to save it to keep serving the industries located there. I was told they were "going to develop it as a trail" and that there was "no industry" in that part of town. I wonder what he thinks those large buildings are? They look like factories and the people that work there claim to make things, but thats just me. So, some people are aware of trains and others think they just block traffic or provide a shorter route than the sidewalk.
...I'd say the general public...might see a "train" and look right thru it...not giving one thought as to what is taking place or why it's even there.
One of our resturants is located just across the street of a double track CSX, east / west route and i observe 9 out of 10 people {my guess}, do not even pay any attention to one that passes by.
Have a feeling when I'm looking at it pass....Others might wonder "what that fellow is looking at".....
I believe the general public can be waiting for a train to pass at a crossing, and the only thought would be for {a large %}, of them would be how long is this thing going to be holding be up....And really, have no thoughts at all, of what service that train might be providing. Some might even give an answer if asked...Do trains haul freight, transport important fuels...."I don't think they do that anymore....Only trucks do that", and not even be interested why a train actually is running down the line.....Just the opservations....and feelings I get from watching the public, and hearing comments, etc....Nothing scientific, just my opinion.
Quentin
Not as aware as they should be. Our local paper, St. Louis Post-Dispatch did a three part article a couple of months ago about how many people walking along tracks or across bridges are being killed in our area. They might be listening to ear buds, but they do not seem to be concerned about what can happen. Sad story was UP engine crew seeing a boy they knew and used to talk to sometimes while they waited for signal clearance. One day he crossed right in front on their engine into path of Amtrak coming alongside. They tried to warn him by sounding the horn, but he paid no attention.
Operation Lifesafer is trying to get the word out, but people seem to take trains for granted and try to co-exist in the same space, which does not work.
I am part of a railfan group locally and also with many on Facebook. To a lot of people, a train is mainly an inconvenience, blocking their way or being totally clueless as to what's going on. Even if they ride Amtrak with me, they are not really aware of what is happening, it's just a way to get from point A to point B.
Growing up in a rail family, I learned very early to respect a train's space. My father would get very upset with people going around crossing gates. Luckily, no one was ever hurt, but that is risky behavior.
oltmanndHeavy rail rapid transit - a "subway"
When you get up above Lindberg, it doesn't look much like a subway, to me.
henry6The thinking of covering up or ignoring something is not good public relations or being a good neighbor by business, industry, railroads, and politicians.
It seems as simple as the advice in the Good Book: "Pride goeth before destruction and a haughty spirit before a fall." Yet often successful companies and accomplished individuals seem to ignore the problem.
In my area, Dallas, Tx, only one passenger train, AMTRAK, runs. We also have an excursion train, Texas State Railroad, which runs from Palestine to Rusk, and returns! We do have numerous freight trains routed near Dallas.
My interest came from my grandfather, an engineer on the old Texas & Pacific line.
The last time the general public around my area paid any attention to the railroads was when the CN purchased the EJ&E. That was only because of the increased train traffic and the NIMBYs who tried to stop it.
Dan Metzger
Yes, WR, that is the point. The thinking of covering up or ignoring something is not good public relations or being a good neighbor by business, industry, railroads, and politicians. "Over a period of time" could be expensive, more expensive than if the PR program or advertising part of the program had been done all along at a slower pace and lower key.
RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.
In the past every kid here in Canada and most adults were familiar with railroads and could at least name the two big systems, CP and CN. Our history and Canada's very existence, after all, is due to the success of the railway. Today things are different... and more complicated. A Southern Pacific SD45T-2 is a regular visitor here in Guelph, Ontario, on a regional railroad that very few people could name or identify with.
henry6Business men are leery of the press, feel what they do is their private business, and whether anything is right or wrong, it's not for the public to know. Every PR man as far back as time for them began, has promoted the idea of being upfront early and honestly with the truth of the story even if it is only the way you see it, that getting ahead of a situation puts you in the driver seat no matter. Too many businessmen and politicians don't heed the PRman's advice. And again there are very local, very state, very regional, and very national needs for PR so they often don't cross over.
Henry
But I think (and I suspect you think) this attitude is a mistake. No ad campaign is going to make the public suddenly love or care about railroads. However, over a period of time railroads (and other large organizations) can present themselves to the public as they are: A large group of honest people working to deliver a needed service or product. Then when something really bad happens at least people won't be quite so quick to jump to the worst conclusions.
John
Convicted One oltmannd They wonder why Atlanta does not have any commuter lines. What do they consider all the MARTA trains to be?
oltmannd They wonder why Atlanta does not have any commuter lines.
What do they consider all the MARTA trains to be?
Heavy rail rapid transit - a "subway"
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
Matt Van HattemHow much do most people know about the railroads in your area?
I live in metro Atlanta - a major rail hub that has been completely overshadowed by massive amounts of interstate highways. Most people who live here are transplants, so their local knowledge may be as sharp as places where people are "born and raised". However....
They know when the local road crossing is blocked by a train (CSX Abbeville sub - controlled siding is cut by two local roads). They complain to me about it. The railroad is CSX. I work for NS. Doesn't matter!
One neighbor used to be a line manager for UPS. He knows about railroads a good bit - to the point that every time he sees me, he yells at me about train performance. ...even though he is retired!
Occasionally, I'll run across someone who uses rail intermodal at their place of work. They have a fuzzy idea of what that's about and can generally identify CSX and NS as the major railroads in the area.
Other neighbors, who come from areas where commuter trains are common, know a bit more. Usually, they know something of Amtrak and have heard of Metroliners and/or Acela. They wonder why Atlanta does not have any commuter lines. Even these folk are generally unaware that the Crescent stops here.
Generally, though, railroads are a lot like power lines and sewers. Nobody pays them much attention until something goes wrong.
Here is how they advertise railroads in Russia:
http://www.cartoonbrew.com/advertising/paint-on-glass-ad-by-aleksandr-petrov-for-russian-railways-79693.html
tree68A microwave might travel by rail (container) to the first domestic distribution point, but after that, it's all over-the-road.
Certainly if I go out and buy a microwave or anything else I don't think about how it got here. I just buy what I want and take it home. Here in northern New Jersey there are a hugh number of trucks on our roads. Anyone who does much driving knows about them. They don't necessarily go slowly but on our older highways with traffic signals they tend to go slower than most cars and it certainly takes then a while to get up to speed. That is an annoyance to drivers. And when there are accidents they get a lot of publicity.
Certainly drivers would welcome anything that takes trucks off of our roads. But, and you and Don Phillips pointed this out, from the rail yard to the retail store trucks will carry the goods so whatever happens we will still see a lot of trucks on the road.
Bucyrus,
The ads for trains I see on TV simply shows them operating. Some are photomontages of historical views of trains along with the people who operate them. The message seems to be simply that trains are here and they are very much part of all of our lives.
I get the 50-500 mile thing - a significant amount of the freight that moves is consumer goods. And that stuff is generally going to move from distribution point to distribution point to point of sale. A microwave might travel by rail (container) to the first domestic distribution point, but after that, it's all over-the-road.
The railroad shipping document that I have for a household goods movement of 50-70 miles is from an era when such a move by truck wasn't a common thing, while LCL shipping was an everyday occurance. Even then, the last 8 miles of that particular shipment was by road.
BaltACD John WR Recently on this site Don Phillips pointed out most freight moves no mure than 50 miles This is a delivery service, not a shipping service. But it does look like UPS and other express services are using rail where it makes sense. I can't think of any less than 50 mile moves for freight on my territory. Now there is a lot that is less than 500 miles.
John WR Recently on this site Don Phillips pointed out most freight moves no mure than 50 miles This is a delivery service, not a shipping service. But it does look like UPS and other express services are using rail where it makes sense.
Recently on this site Don Phillips pointed out most freight moves no mure than 50 miles This is a delivery service, not a shipping service.
But it does look like UPS and other express services are using rail where it makes sense.
I can't think of any less than 50 mile moves for freight on my territory. Now there is a lot that is less than 500 miles.
Well, of course you don't know of any. You're a railroader after all and since a move like that most likely wouldn't go by rail, the railroad doesn't know those moves exist. At least, that was how the old saying went.
Seriously, most reported miles that I've read usually use 300 or 500 miles for the top end of the average distance that freight moves in the US. Of course most of those moves won't go by rail either.
Jeff
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Oh I don’t think there is anything wrong with telling the public that trains are fuel efficient. It is just that I have a feeling that the public is not really getting the message from such an oblique ad presentation.
In advertising, it pays to say what you mean. To make the ad more effective, they might tell the listener why it should matter to them how fuel efficient trains are. Then maybe they could make the point of fuel efficiency in a way that doesn’t leave the listener calibrating ton miles. Just tell them that trains are forty-one-thousand times more fuel efficient than a Smart Car, and tell them that makes dinner cheaper.
Norm48327Most people now ship via UPS or FEDEX because Railway Express Agency is a thing of the past.
Ironically, in many cases their UPS shipment goes by.... rail.
I would opine that one reason for telling people about the fuel efficiency of shipping by rail is to (hopefully) "feel good" about getting hung up at a crossing. They can take comfort in the fact that it's a good way to move things, environment-wise.
And, as has been pointed, nobody ships by rail. I have in my collection a shipping document for household goods shipped for a minister to a nearby (and long out-of-use) station from another not 60 miles away.
I think what Henry says about 'out of sight, out of mind' has a lot of merit. I know of no individuals who, unlike in days of yore, ship things by rail. Hence, they have little idea of what the railroads really do other than haul coal. I've had people tell me the latter is all they do, and say it with conviction. Most people now ship via UPS or FEDEX because Railway Express Agency is a thing of the past.
As far as the railroads promoting themselves to the general public, if I didn't know some rails I would be a mushroom (read, kept int the dark and fed horse.....) like the folks who don't know.
How best for the railroads to promote themselves is above my pay grade.
Norm
Advertising isn't necessarily PR and vice versa. Advertising can be used in a PR campaign and advertising of product or service or just putting one's name out in front of the public is certainly public relations. However when it comes to keeping people aware that the tracks still host trains, that physical characteristics will change or train frequencies and speed will increase for railroads is more difficult because towns don't have the station agent anymore. Business men are leery of the press, feel what they do is their private business, and whether anything is right or wrong, it's not for the public to know. Every PR man as far back as time for them began, has promoted the idea of being upfront early and honestly with the truth of the story even if it is only the way you see it, that getting ahead of a situation puts you in the driver seat no matter. Too many businessmen and politicians don't heed the PRman's advice. And again there are very local, very state, very regional, and very national needs for PR so they often don't cross over.
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