Semaphore Signals

[athelney]

Just curious to know of any operating semaphore signals in your part of the country --. We have 2 operating and 1 static - ( permanently in the up oposition ) at the junction of the CP and Southern Railway of BC - at Clayburn BC . Anyone notice any?

[Anonymous]

As a youngster I grew up running the tracks. There was a set close to our farm. The other set was on the other side of town. BN or Frisco (can't remember which one) took them out and replaced them with the standard searchlight signals. You know that the semaphores were lighted at night just like a searchlight signal so I guess the maintenance on them was why they were switched.

[Big_Boy_4005]

None here around the Twin Cities. They even removed the old smash boards at Bald Eagle Junction. All the lines are running colored light signals, searchlight or multiple light.

[dknelson]

The semaphores I remember here in Milwaukee on the C&NW are all long-gone, alas. Brighton Park in Chicago has armstrong operated semaphores at the crossing -- maybe the last ones around?
Dave Nelson

[DRBusse]

Check out http://www.semaphores.com

Remaining semaphores have been covered ad nauseum elsewhere. You'll find them along the CORP in Oregon, Montana Rail Link in extreme western Montana, the CSX ex-Monon in southern Indiana, BNSF ex-Santa Fe in New Mexico (Raton Pass line) and a few other places scattered here and there. I understand the CORP signals are not long for the world; a bunch of the MRL blades are scheduled to come down next month. Put St. Regis, Montana in your travel plans for the next few weeks if you want to see some great upper-quadrant semaphores, easily accessed, serving their final days along a very scenic railroad.

[mudchicken]

There are only a handfull of T-2 semaphore signals left on the ATSF Dodge City to La Lunta To Raton to Albuquerque lines.... Tricolor 3- lamp signals have pretty well taken over.... T-2 is a semaphore withe a colored lamp lens, T-1's are the semaphores w/o colored lights, both are 1900-1930's ancient and I miss them mostly because after motor car indicators, they could give you a signal aspect from behind.....


There are a gaggle of T-1's and T-2's still guarding ICE's ex-Milwuakee transcon in central Iowa.

[;)][;)][;)]

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Big_Boy_4005

None here around the Twin Cities. They even removed the old smash boards at Bald Eagle Junction. All the lines are running colored light signals, searchlight or multiple light.

Can you very carefully tell me the difference? You will have to use simple terms, since I don't have a clue what we have here.

Mookie

[Big_Boy_4005]

A picture is worth a thousand words.



I'm sure you have seen both styles. My understanding is that the railroads are moving toward the multi light style as they do replacements.

[Mookie]

Ok - that makes sense - We definitely have multiple lights here. Now I know!

Thank you!

Mookie

[Big_Boy_4005]

You're welcome Jen. I enjoy making these little drawings for you or anyone else. If I have a photo that helps explain something, I'm happy to post those too. This sketch just took 10 minutes to whip up.

Did you understand the word aspect that MC used in his response? Aspect refers to the color or position of the signal. Things get complicated when there are multiple heads on the same mast.

I'm surprised that you didn't ask about smash boards.

[Mookie]

You know - I thought about Smash Boards - but figured I wouldn't see them -

I am always on a time constraint - have to ready and ask during work time, so sometimes I just don't have time to read something very thoroughly. But yeah, I would like to know -

And just between you and me - most of the time I never understand what MC says. He has his own language and I just read his reviews and pick out a word here and there that makes sense. Or not!

Jen

[tree68]

Smash boards - the ultimate "stop" aspect. As you're picking up the splinters you can reflect on the fact that you should have stopped... Assuming you didn't hit something as a result of running the signal..

[Mookie]

Ah!

[Big_Boy_4005]

Thanks Larry, I'm a little slow this morning. The reason I even mentioned smash boards was because they look and operate a little like semaphores. Sort of like a "crossing gate" for trains, they only have two aspects, clear and absolute stop. The longer and wider blade hung directly over the track, about cab height, making them very hard to miss. They would be found at places like junctions, opening bridges, or gauntlets.

Here's a photo of the junction I mentioned earlier. The mast in the distance used to hold the smash board, as well as a lighted signal.



I know, I know, what's a gauntlet?[swg]

A gauntlet was used to squeeze two tracks through an obstacle like a bridge or tunnel. Instead of using switches and going to a simple single track, the two tracks were interlaced, leaving 4 running rails on the ties. I'm not sure when this practice was discontinued, but I think you can see why you would want a smash board ahead of this track feature.

[Anonymous]

Semaphores around here were removed by the B&O between 1935 and 1960, in honor of their CPLs, whichy CSX is already tearing out in honor of the ugly in-line "Darth Vader" signals.

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by trainheartedguy

Semaphores around here were removed by the B&O between 1935 and 1960, in honor of their CPLs, whichy CSX is already tearing out in honor of the ugly in-line "Darth Vader" signals.

Darth Vader signals? Yes I know what Darth Vader looks like - they had a streamliner that looked just like Darth Vader. But signals? This will require another Elliot drawing.

Moi

[CShaveRR]

Nothing hard about MC's sentence using "aspect". When you're talking about signals, the "aspect" is what you see (red-over-green-over-red, for example), and the "indication" is what the aspect means (diverging clear, in this example, and its definition in the rule book or special instructions).

What MC was saying is that a semaphore can be seen from both directions, even though the aspect, when viewed from behind, has no indication that pertains to you (according to the rules, anyway). Train-watching at interlockings (such as Joliet or Deval) used to be fun when you could see the semaphores from behind as you sat by the crossing, and could tell where the next train was coming from.

As for the Darth Vader signals, that refers to the color-light signals (usually with three bulbs, though I've seen them with one or two) with a single hood covering everything. Not sure how accurate the description is (i.e., I don't remember thinking about railroad signals when Darth Vader appeared on the screen), but somehow know right away what people are talking about.

[Mookie]

BC - now you are starting to sound like MC!

The Darth Vader I can understand - we have some hoodies here, too.

Aspect - want to go read that one over many times and see if I can get it straight in my mind!

Moo

[Anonymous]

Ahh the old Semaphore Signals- Actually i know where some are still in use

On the Island of Sodoor- Thomas the tank engine and his gang still run on a RR with them intact and functioning

[locomutt]

I don't recall any semaphores around this area at all,other than the ones for train
orders. C&O used color lights,B&O with their color position lights,PRR&N&W,
with their position lights.I believe Southern used searchlights. And I'm not sure
about the IC (before ICG) I know that most now are color lights.

And Mookie,unless I'm extremely wrong;I think the "DARTH VADER" signals
are the triangular light arrangment(2 lens on top,other below centered,to look like
a triangle) with the hood wrapping around all three.[:)]

[Big_Boy_4005]

Can't honestly say I've heard the term "Darth Vader" used with signals prior to this conversation. I think I have an Idea what is meant. The modern multi light signals have a very deep hood on them. I'm guessing the hood is simply a sun shade which helps give the light more intensity by cutting down the ambient light, thus making it easier to see during the day.

One thing that I've noticed over the years is that the eastern roads have some very different styles of signals. Is there any chance that the industry is moving toward some kind of standard?

[cbq9911a]

Semaphores are alive and well at the Illinois Railway Museum. They took out two semaphores last year, but added two more.

[Big_Boy_4005]

Like the others have said, there are some still out there on the class ones. I was looking at the rule book, in particular BNSF's version of rule 9.1. All of the aspects and indications still show a semaphore version in addition to the common colored light.

Darth Vader eh? Is this what we are talking about?



As long as this conversation has disintegrated into a more generic signaling question with only hints of semaphore, here's a photo fo something strange and new to ponder. What the hell are the aspects and indications of a 5 light signal like this?

This is on joint trackage in a section of two mains approaching a crossover. The westbound train is passing through the trailing point crossover at the east end of the plant. The facing point crossover is about a mile ahead of it, and has similar signals.

[locomutt]

Not exactly,put the green and yellow on the top 'row'
Then center the red below. Triangle. And
now form the visor,hood,etc. to wrap them.

And to whom ever asked the question,they are basicly
to provide protection from the glare of the sun,so that
train crew can see the aspect more clearly.

I wish I could remember the model no. for those,but I
think I'm getting "half-timers" also.[:)]

[Big_Boy_4005]

I've seen models of the triangle ones, but I'm not sure what roads use them. There aren't any of those around here.

[Hugh Jampton]

You want semaphore signals??? We got thousands of them here still. Some of them probably erected by Stephenson himself.. It was a nightmare connecting the TPWS to them...

[Big_Boy_4005]

Thanks Mark, any thoughts on that 5 light head in that photo? Sorry the lighting was bad.

[CShaveRR]

GTW was a user of the triangular-array color-light signals as well. I think some have been replaced with vertically-oriented signal heads.

No clue on the five-bulb signal head. There used to be a four-light option (one light above the other three) on CNW's horizontally-oriented color-light signals; it was a lunar light (sometimes lunar was one of the three in a normal signal; they used four lights only when all four colors could be required).

[athelney]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Hugh Jampton

You want semaphore signals??? We got thousands of them here still. Some of them probably erected by Stephenson himself.. It was a nightmare connecting the TPWS to them...

Am familiar with Uk semaphores , having spent many hours in local signal boxes " helping " the signalman !! But the semaphores in this part of the world seem a bit different so was trying to see if other Forum members know of any other ones that are still in use today - thanks for the post -- forgot you would have problems with TPWS - not in use when I was back in the UK -- 1970's

[Mookie]

Ok - this is starting to clear up! Pictures are always my best learning tool. Now - we have a "bridge" that has those signals on it - the 3 in a line variety. There are 4 tracks and 4 signals, but above those four - right in the middle is one signal - I think it has 3 lights, but it is hard to see any of these unless you are standing in the middle of the tracks, which I am not want to do.

Does this single light represent the top light and then one of the four below represent the bottom half for that track? IE - Red over yellow or Yellow over green? Am I close?

Mookie