Off Topic, but Ominous!

[M636C]

I have just heard that a very large car bomb was exploded outside the Australian Embassy in south Djakarta, Indonesia.

Apparently only six people were killed, mainly Indonesian security guards and some passers by. All Embassy staff are said to be safe.

In case you haven't noticed, it is very close to the anniversary of the New York attacks. The bombing in Bali which affected many Australians, was later, on 12 October.

Our Department of Foreign Affairs has recommended deferring travel to Indonesia.

They have some very interesting old GEs in Indonesia, among other things.

Peter

[Junctionfan]

This is what happens when the U.N doesn't do their job by protecting the international community and solely letting the countries look after their own problems.

[M636C]

Oh, sorry Mark, or others who might be travelling! I wasn't trying to cause alarm. I'm not even sure that I support the "be alert but not alarmed" idea, although I do support the "not alarmed" part. It just struck me that it was important. Indonesia is the nearest major country to our North and there have been a series of bombs there, often killing innocent Indonesians rather than Westerners who are assumed to be the targets.

Road accidents are probably still a greater risk to travellers in most parts of the world rather than all types of terrorism.

Australia is a target because we were involved in the separation of East Timor, which is seen as an insult by some Indonesian extremists, partly because the East Timorese are largely Christian rather than Moslem.

But to move to get this thread at least partly on topic, where can you fly internationally from the USA and see F units? I would say only the USA and Mexico, unless there are some still working in Saudi Arabia, and I'm not sure I'd go there right now!

Peter

[Junctionfan]

Does Australia have any U.S railroad style locomotives? I know there are AC6000CWs over there.

[M636C]

While we are on topic, Australia has a number of US locomotives in use on iron ore mining railroads in the distant North West, known as the Pilbara area. Two companies, Hamersley Iron and Robe River merged to form Pilbara Rail, and use exclusively GE Dash 9 - 44C locomotives. Hamersley had five SD50s, that are now in the USA on the Utah Railway, and three C36-7s that went to the US for use with NREC. (Note that these eight locomotives were built in Australia, so this was their first trip overseas).
The other main operator, BHP Billiton has eight AC6000s (which aren't quite standard, having even bigger radiators than stadard AC 6000s) and the cab profile is slightly smaller than standard to fit through the original, oldest ore car dumper (ironically, purchased from the USA!) They also have 40 C40-8s with completely non standard cabs (with no noses). They have recently obtained twenty SD40s and SD40-2s from GE in Mexico while waiting for new units, either SD70ACe or the new Evo version AC4400.
These lines all used Alco C636 and M636 units (nearly 100 all up) and some of these were rebuilt into C40-8s, using only the frames and trucks.

On the normal common carrier railways, there were a number of locomotives resembling F units but with six motor trucks based on SD9 designs to spread the load on lighter track. The last 17 of these were effectively SDP 40Fs with F unit cabs.

There were also a number of GT26Cs, effectively SD40s but lighter and lower in height.

There were also twenty Alco RSC-3s and a large number (more than 130 units) of Alco cab units which were six axle versions of FPA-4s.

Peter

[RudyRockvilleMD]

We visited Australia in 1994, and I understand there were no more Alco FPA 's in service back then. Was I right?

I also saw and photographed some V Line double ended F units near the Spencer Street station. Are any of those still in service?

I also photographed the "hybrid SDP 40/ F units" on the Ghan leaving Alice Springs and on the eastbound Indian Pacific at Katoomba; are any of those still in service?

[M636C]

Ok, the on topic material first.

While the Government systems took all the DL-500s out of service by 1994, the subsequent private operators have brought quite a few back into service, and there might be eight or so in service now. Many of them look pretty sad, some not having been painted in twenty years and most not having been washed in some time.

The Victorian double ended units rebuilt with 12-645E3Bs (A class) are all still in traffic, but the surviving original units (B class) were recently withdrawn due to frame cracking, although maybe one or two were not affected. The single end units (S class) were similarly affected but again a couple remain in service.

The AT26Cs, apart from one destroyed by fire in a collision (CLP15), are all in service but repainted in Genesee & Wyoming Orange with black stripes, (not as striking as the Green and Silver). They are being renumbered as 3001 to 3016, but are no longer used in passenger service.

To return to the subject of the thread, the death toll is up to nine but up to 180 were injured. Apparently the Embassy had polycarbonate windows, which didn't shatter, unlike those in most of the non targeted buildings.

A sad possibility is that the terrorists knew that the Embassy wouldn't be badly affected, but still bombed it for its symbolic value (knowing that only innocent bystanders would be affected!).

Peter

[Junctionfan]

The U.N must start doing more against the war on terrorism. I have been discusted at their performance as of late as they are not enforcing international law properly. As soon as thease "terrorist states" started their war, the U.N should have told the countries enough is enough and told them that unless they stopped the terrorism than the UN security forces would come in. If the U.N want to continue to demostrate its importants, than it must prove its worth more. I don't like that the U.S attacked Iraq but really the U.N should have removed Sadam in the first place and sent him to the War Crimes Tribunal for gasing his own people in the first place. The reason why the U.S, U.K and other nations take international law in their own time is because the U.N does not enforce the law properly if at all and it takes them so damn long to get anything accomplished in the security council that it is often too late for their "help". There are plenty of genocides the U.N should have been more pro-active on like in Bosnia, Serbia and other parts of formal Yugoslavia, Rwanda, Iraq, Nigeria, South Africa, etc.

There are no shortage of prosecutable leaders that often have cause civil war in the countries, and the U.N doesn't step in to at least enforce the peace. If the U.N doesn't want the U.S to take international law into their own hands, than the U.N must do a better job in handling international affairs.

[dharmon]

Peter,

I hope they catch them. The Indonesians seem to have a penchant for obtaining information when it suits them.

About the AT26C, pretty neat. I had had to look it up. What are the circles on the roof? They look like porthole windows.

Dan

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Junctionfan

The U.N must start doing more against the war on terrorism. I have been discusted at their performance as of late as they are not enforcing international law properly. As soon as thease "terrorist states" started their war, the U.N should have told the countries enough is enough and told them that unless they stopped the terrorism than the UN security forces would come in. If the U.N want to continue to demostrate its importants, than it must prove its worth more. I don't like that the U.S attacked Iraq but really the U.N should have removed Sadam in the first place and sent him to the War Crimes Tribunal for gasing his own people in the first place. The reason why the U.S, U.K and other nations take international law in their own time is because the U.N does not enforce the law properly if at all and it takes them so damn long to get anything accomplished in the security council that it is often too late for their "help". There are plenty of genocides the U.N should have been more pro-active on like in Bosnia, Serbia and other parts of formal Yugoslavia, Rwanda, Iraq, Nigeria, South Africa, etc.

There are no shortage of prosecutable leaders that often have cause civil war in the countries, and the U.N doesn't step in to at least enforce the peace. If the U.N doesn't want the U.S to take international law into their own hands, than the U.N must do a better job in handling international affairs.

Which UN security forces would you be describing? The forces contributed to individual operations by member countries placed under confused and ineffective chains of command? The same security forces that were taken hostage by the Serbs because ineffective UN leadership wouldn't allow the NATO planes overhead to drop bombs to keep it from happening or at least convince the Serbs to consider another day? I've spent 10 years of my career going to places that the UN tried handle first. I'd like them to stop so I can retire in one piece and just talk trains.

[Junctionfan]

The reason why the U.N security forces are so ineffective is because they don't follow any real form of a chain of command. In my opinion it should be structured similarly how the allies were structured during World War II with a supreme commander and top generals representing the countries participating units. Only one should control the military forces and take orders from the U.N Security Council. Again though the U.N must take an active role in international law enforcement. That means if aggresion is needed, do it and stop making excuses why you can't give orders to do what is necessary and just do it. Can you imagine how bad it would be if the U.N tried to fight against Hitler.......hmm League of Nations rings a bell....If the U.N isn't going to do their job properly than there is no real purpose for their existance is there.

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Junctionfan

The reason why the U.N security forces are so ineffective is because they don't follow any real form of a chain of command. In my opinion it should be structured similarly how the allies were structured during World War II with a supreme commander and top generals representing the countries participating units. Only one should control the military forces and take orders from the U.N Security Council. Again though the U.N must take an active role in international law enforcement. That means if aggresion is needed, do it and stop making excuses why you can't give orders to do what is necessary and just do it. Can you imagine how bad it would be if the U.N tried to fight against Hitler.......hmm League of Nations rings a bell....If the U.N isn't going to do their job properly than there is no real purpose for their existance is there.

The UN will continue to be ineffective as long as there are individual countries, which with good reason have no desire to yield any degree of autonomy to a collective. I would say that the UN just needs to stick to helping out refugees, but that seems to be what gets them in trouble in the first place. As an arena for discourse between countries it has a role, but beyond that they have proven fairly ineffective in all political/military endevours (Korea being somewhat of an exception). This really isn't the appropriate forum to discuss, nor do I want to hijack Peter's thread, but I will say I can give plenty of examples of howw the UN has botched, bungled and screwed up just about every meaningful action they have started. There intention have been good, but they do not have they collective depth nor determination to achieve the goals they set, either through gross mismanagement or resistance and restrictions placed on them by participating nations. In short I agree with you - the UN should has no business trying to run military actions.

Heck, I wouldn't trust them to run a railroad!

[Junctionfan]

Maybe the U.N would be better off contracting NATO to run the security forces. With Russia now involved as a junior partner in NATO, it means more possible troop deployments. Now if we could convince China to join NATO, we would have it made.

[M636C]

The latest information is that an Indonesian police officer received a phone text message 45 minutes before the bomb blast, suggesting that a Western Embassy would be bombed unless the imprisoned head of Jamaa Islamia was released. This was not passed on, and senior Indonesians are even denying the message was sent.

The Indonesians have a problem, in that they are a Moslem country with a number of areas of internal unrest, and being a genuine democracy, can't be seen to be giving a hard time to even an extremist arm of a majority relious group. There is also an Asian reluctance to admit problems in order to "save face", and a poorly paid police force in an area where corruption is the norm. They have a good legal system, and a recent attempt to apply an anti-terrorist law retrospectively to alleged Bali bombers was declared unconstitutional. That shouldn't be too much of a problem, because mass murder is still a fairly serious offence.

While greater involvement from the UN might be helpful, these particular crimes were carried out by Indonesians and largely affected Indonesians, and they have to catch and puni***he offenders according to their laws. They are receiving a lot of help from Australians and this is good, because our two countries are going to have to get along, since we are going to remain neighbours, and the East Timor situation didn't help much. There are also distinct problems associated with suicide bombing in that the direct perpetrators are beyond justice.

To go back on topic, the AT26C originally had only the four side portholes, like an E unit. They were rebuilt in 1994 with an early microprocessor control by Morrison Knudsen (Australia), and nine of them were fitted with twin Cummins HEP sets for passenger service. At this time portholes were added to the angled roof sections, a feature introduced a little earlier by the Goninan CM30-8 (EL class). This made engine room inspection easier during daylight. They have since been updated with newer microprocessors by EDI, the EMD licencee (and they lost their MK builders plates).

Peter

[broncoman]

Peter,

This may be a little off topic but I was curious as to any changes that was made in you country with regards to security since 911. We don't here too much about what happens in other countries and I was just curious. I love our security changes (haha). I can no longer meet my sister and family at the gate when she arrives at the airport. As she is bringing in 3 kids and their assorted support gear. However I sat and watched as someone with a thirty foot enlosed trailer pulled right up to the curb at the airport and security did nothing. Its amazing.

[Junctionfan]

I think Russia is going to have to step up their security after that discusting display of savagery at that school.

Russia may attack another country for that other than same old target Chechnia.

[M636C]

Broncoman,

Security increased in Australia as well. It was immediately clear to me, since I was working in our Defence Headquarters, in buildings adjacent to an airport. Additional barriers were put up, and people had to show their photo IDs rather than just relying on the magnetic strip on the back to let you into the building.

But things are all relative. I attended meetings with the British Royal Air Force in London (in 1996), and at one stage I noticed that the net curtains on all the windows were weighted at the bottom. The answer was "The curtains are Kevlar - they are there to catch the window glass fragments from a bomb blast". We aren't that serious yet, something the British learned from years of problems in Northern Ireland. Even now, few military members are seen in uniform in London (apart from ceremonial guards).

I haven't tried to get into a domestic air terminal when not actually travelling since Sept . 11, so I can't say whether that stage has been reached here, but I don't recall having to show my tickets at the security gate either, so that might still be possible.

I noticed only this week that the concrete road barriers around our Defence offices have been replaced by large boulders arranged on the lawns providing a sort of "landscaped" barrier that looks much less oppressive while being just as effective as a vehicle barrier.

There hasn't been much of a change in rail operations from security concerns and railfans aren't given a hard time. I was once questioned for going to a dark corner of a station to change film (and I'm not sure the policeman ever understood why I did that - the result of years trying to avoid light flashes on 35mm).

Our ports have very recently become harder to access (restrictions requested by the USA, I'm told) and some photos of grain trains might get more difficult to get.

Russia and Chechnya are a much more difficult problem. There was a documentary on Deutche Welle (German TV) which indicated that the situation was very confusing. One guy they interviewed was a member of the Russian security forces, but admitted he'd previously been on the rebel side. There were illegal oil refineries (!) transporting the fuel in tankers marked "water". I'm told much of the money comes from illegal drug trafficking. It's not the sort of thing you fix by sending in air strikes, but by setting up an effective police force and an honest legal system (not that that's easy!)

There were suggestions that the school attack in North Ossetia was carried out (in part)by elements other than Chechens who also want to separate from Russia. There is some criticism of the Russian authorities who apparently lied consistently about the numbers involved in the hostage situation, and that the hostage takers knew this, since they were watching television.

Even the US Government is in favour of a negotiated political settlement in Chechnya, because this is the best way of stopping the Terrorism and removing the need for Russian military action in the area.

Peter

[Anonymous]

Doesn't Australia have the last C628?

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by M636C

To go back on topic, the AT26C originally had only the four side portholes, like an E unit. They were rebuilt in 1994 with an early microprocessor control by Morrison Knudsen (Australia), and nine of them were fitted with twin Cummins HEP sets for passenger service. At this time portholes were added to the angled roof sections, a feature introduced a little earlier by the Goninan CM30-8 (EL class). This made engine room inspection easier during daylight. They have since been updated with newer microprocessors by EDI, the EMD licencee (and they lost their MK builders plates).

Peter

Okay, so I wasn't seeing things. They really are portholes. You've got me doing google searches on Aussie locos again....pretty interesting stuff.

Dan

[daveklepper]

Some facts:

1. The UN put the education of Palestinian kids in the refugee camps in the hands of terrorists.

2. Even in Israel and in the Palestinian ruled areas, what happens on the highways is THE major health problem . Like nearly all other countries where a high standard of living includes car owndership.

3. Public transportation, even in Israel, is still a lot safer than crossing the street in some of the major metropolitan areas of the world.

[Junctionfan]

Discusting isn't it. If the U.S and some of the other countries hadn't interfeared, the British army was doing a good job keeping the peace in the Gaza. Now look what has happened.

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Junctionfan

Discusting isn't it. If the U.S and some of the other countries hadn't interfeared, the British army was doing a good job keeping the peace in the Gaza. Now look what has happened.

Umm...time to hit the history books....it was the British and some of the arbitrary borders they drew as well as the primarily Brit regional actions leading up to, during and following WWI that has helped fuel this.....this isn't exactly a US made problem. It was alreasy brewing before we hopped into it. Including...he he he ......ole Larry of Araby working with the tribals to blow up Turki***rains....

[M636C]

My personal view is that the Israel/ Palestine situation can only be solved by an agreement between the two groups involved, and that this does not seem to be likely unless there are considerable concessions on both sides. Regardless of the beliefs and actions on both sides, far too many people (both Arab and Israeli) are being killed.

There is a complete C 628 shell at Hamersley Iron, without engine, generator or motors, but in reasonably fresh paint as a "monument" at the entry gate. It could be restored, but there are no proposals to do so. Is this really the last C628?

Peter