Henry you are correct about every agreement being different. When BNSF & CSX made their haulage agreement it was in several parts. Due to the quickness of BNSF's desire to start the service several items were agreed to on a tight timeline. BNSF would market & supply all rolling stock. BNSF pays CSX some amount to haul these trains. ( note these are complete trains ) Locomotive power would be at a high HP / tonage ratio. There is no CSX pool power on this haulage agreement. CSX would be responsible for loading and unloading trains at FAIRBURN.
CSX WOULD make certain line improvements. On the A&WP sub 2 additional 10,000 ft sidings were added & 2 sidings + whole sub was converted to CTC from FAIRBURN - LaGrange. At the same time the Lineville sub from LaGrange - Birmingham was to be improved with code line removal during a CTC upgrade. The lineville sub ( old ABC ROUTE ) had many very short sidings that were programed to be lenghtened or replaced by longer sidings. CSX & BNSF had to agree to a tight train timetable schedule to enable these long trains to pass each other. Due to other traffic CSX is still improving the Lineville sub.CSX crews have always operated these trains Birmingham - Fairburn.
gsrrman I have a picture of a UP unit on a Conrail train eastbound on the Horseshoe curve headed to Oak Island yard. It was online and helping to pull the train.
I have a picture of a UP unit on a Conrail train eastbound on the Horseshoe curve headed to Oak Island yard. It was online and helping to pull the train.
That does not make it a haulage train and definitely not trackage rights. It was perhaps pooled power, leased power, run through power, balancing (UP owed CR so many horsepower hours), or stolen power (on the ready track or coming in the yard, hp needed to go east, so send it east and worry about it later). Again: Haulage is traffic from one road hauled on a host road in host road trains usually with host road power (no matter name on engne, loaned, leased, borrowed, stolen, whatever) with host road crew. Trackage rights is whole train, power, and usually crew of road, on host road between two given points. Today it is even more confusing with run throughs, pooled power, leased units, borrowed units, etc. so no assumptions can be made; you've got to know the railroad and its agreements with others. You might even have railroad A running balance power for railroad B with units from railroad C or a leasing outfit; but you can't tell just by seeing.
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I'm about 100 miles from Buffalo, and UP as well as BNSF locomotives are fairly common to see up here. Guelph, where I live, offers some interesting sightings... Rail America runs a mixed bag of power including units lettered for Misouri Pacific and an Espee SD45T-2. The other road through town is owned by the city and runs nothing but Alco power.
Are the real haulage trains (by definition) or are they run through trains with pool power? I don't believe it is haulage...haulage is an agreement between two roads with STB approvals, etc. I think it is just a pooled power or run through...you won't find it as a BNSF train on CSX or any other than BNSF rails. There really is a legal and definitive difference.
henry6 Haulage rights don't usually use foreign power but host's power and crews. Trackage rights will usually have both power and crews for the foreign road.
Haulage rights don't usually use foreign power but host's power and crews. Trackage rights will usually have both power and crews for the foreign road.
Henry6 The thru BNSF intermodal trains from the west coast to Atlanta's CSX Fairburn intermodal terminal are all haulage. However they always use BNSF power ( usually overpowered with 3 - 4 4400 HP units ) The crews are CSX Birmingham crews that take the trains to / from Fairburn - LaGrange - Birmingham.
Even westbound baretables ( about 1 every other day ) usually have 3 units. some west bound trains may have 4 - 6 locos (not all on line )
I thought UP does have a run-through, that goes through Buffalo to some eastern destination, possibly Selkerk Yard, for Washington State frute and vegitible products, a joint UP-CSX operaton, wait, it goest all the way to Hunts POint market in the Bronx, NY.
Ittlered, do you live in Buffalo?
Your question does lead me to wonder if, aside from the days of the empire builders, there has been a serious attempt to merge railroads west and east, end to end in the US?
Does any traffic land bridge from coast to coast in Canada?
Haulage rights don't usually use foreign power but host's power and crews. Trackage rights will usually have both power and crews for the foreign road. Another use of foreign power would be from run through or pooling moves and resulting power balancing whe two roads have used one or the other's power. And of course, there are loans, rentals, and lease arrangments with other railroads and through companies who buy locomotives and not repaint them from sellers' scheme.
Run through or pool power is supposed to go only so far as the contract points but often power will be "stolen" or "apprehended" or "borrowed" because either no one noticed the lash up or cared, or it was the only power in sight and the train had to get going.
Haulage rights are another variation, distinct from trackage rights. They seem to be a version of joint rates, in which one road (BNSF for example) will bill the shipper for the entire amount as a single-line shipment from Denver to Buffalo. NS, which in this case has granted haulage rights to BNSF, will be paid by BNSF to move the shipment from Chicago to Buffalo.
Henry6's "wiseacre" answer pretty much sums it up.
One could similarly ask why NS and CSX don't go through Denver, and the answer would be the same.
While railroads did (and do) reach across it, the Mississippi is sort of a "border" between east and west, railroad-wise, if you include a jog into Chicago, where all railroads sought to go.
But reality can be deceiving. With "run through" power being a common practice, one could argue that UP and BNSF do run through Buffalo. I've seen locomotives from both well east of Buffalo, running on the rails of CSX (not to mention Soo, WC, even Mexican lines). The "salad shooter" (perishables from the west coast to Schenectady) usually keeps its UP power straight through to NY.
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The wisacre answer is that they don't own the railroads going to Buffalo, NY. I am not sure what your questions is, though. There is a lot of railroad histroy in your question, which directs you to railroad histories at your library. Even just the history of the Union Pacific would be a start. BNSF is a merger of the Sante Fe and the Burlington Northern which was a merger of the Northern Pacific, the Great Northern and the Chicago, Burlington and Quincy; all of which have ancestory back to 1860 and after. A good general railroad history remains Jensen's American Heritage History of American Railroads. The answer to your question may be as simple as my opening sentence or a complete as Jensen's book...it depends on what and how much you want to know.
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Why does UP and BNSF not run through Buffalo NY? If any one can help with this answer it would be much appreciated Thanks.
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