Amtrak in new york

[Anonymous]

Instead of moving out of Penn station into a new ststion why dosent Amtrak use America's nicest and largest rail terminal of Grand Central.

Is there any connection between the Hudson tunnels or a connection from Grand Central to the NE corridor. Is this just a idea that cant happen?

[trainfan1221]

Amtrak recently got done moving out of Grand Central. It is used exclusively as a commuter terminal now (Metro North). I don't know if there is a connection to the NEC, traffic used the Hudson line.

[Anonymous]

I'm not familiar with or never been to New York, but why did Amtrak move out of Grand Central? From what I've heard, Penn Station is nothing but an underground labyrinth.

[Overmod]

There is, and pretty well always has been, a connection from GCT to the Northeast Corridor going NORTHBOUND. That, of course, is via the old New Haven through New Rochelle. Theoretically, you could connect today by going to Spuyten Duyvil on the Hudson line, crossing the river southbound, and following the new Empire Connection line (which was part of the NYC West Side freight line in a previous life) down to Penn Station. But there's very little point in doing that.

Completely aside from the politics of Metro-North vs. Amtrak, the point of the Northeast Corridor is that it is electrified with high-voltage catenary, and uses the PRR's tunnel and connection via the Hell Gate Bridge for a high-speed THROUGH service. Since Manhattan is in effect a way station, what would be the point of having a terminal? Especially one with restricted overhead clearance and permanent slow orders all the way down the Park Avenue tunnel... and no overhead catenary or the possibility of installing it safely!

In case you're wondering why a through tunnel couldn't 'diverge' at 34th Street to dogleg over to 42nd and then back 'in time' to connect with the East River tunnels -- which might look like a good question if you don't know New York --

Granite makes for lousy construction, especially in an area that's one of the commercial hubs of a busy city;

Substantial elevation difference between Penn and GCT trackage, and main tracks at right angles to one another

Most importantly, 200 years of underground construction in the way... foundations, piping, utility conduits and steam lines... and, worst of all, subway tunnels. I seem to recall that one of the 'better' station-tie-line plans called for a tunnel at least 153' below the surface in order to clear everything already in place...

And spending all that money, taking all that time, and inconveniencing all those New Yorkers gets you what? The ability to walk up a ramp to shopping in Terminal Market? Being able to transfer to the Lexington Avenue IRT directly instead of the 1-2-3 and the IND? Taking the crosstown bus at 42nd St. instead of 34th St? Crosstown rather than uptown trip to Port Authority Bus Terminal?

Quite frankly, I'd rather see all that money spent to make the Farley Post Office into something in the existing, correct location as a showpiece terminal for the New York City NEC station...

[Overmod]

BRF -- Amtrak got tired of having to pay for two sets of terminal personnel, rental, utilities, etc., when very little of the effective "paying" trains went out of GCT, Superliners didn't fit, and the approach was a nightmare of slowly moving commuter trains with 'priority'.

It's almost astounding how much more direct operations over the Empire Connection can be if you're trying to get to downtown Manhattan. And how sensible it is to have all the Amtrak trains going through the same station, using the same platforms and personnel, and not have to worry about the time and expense of transfers. There isn't any fast way to get from a train in Penn Station to a train in GCT, no matter what modes you have access to!

[espeefoamer]

The two times I had to transfer from Penn Station toGrand Central,I took Amtrak through Penn and got off in Stamford Conn.I then took a Metro North train to GCT.

[Junctionfan]

From what my grandfather decribes when transfering over to another train at Penn Station. It is a desolate scummy bus station like atmosphere. It is rather crime infested and the food isn't all that well unless you are armed with Pepto-Bismal.

Why would anybody want to be in a station like that? Where is the pride?

[Overmod]

Junctionfan -- we're not disputing what you indicate.

Penn Station WAS a classic station facility which was torn down to make room for the Madison Square Garden arena. What was left was, as your grandfather indicated, a rather pathetic hole in the ground... although there was a little good food to be found if you knew where to look. It's GRAND CENTRAL that's being referred to as the source of pride... and that's quite a different thing.

What's happening now is that the rather nice post-office building across the street is being converted into the "new" Penn Station. I'm looking forward to seeing how this architecture actually works out. And yes, I'll have pride in it when it's done.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by M.W. Hemphill

Good answers, Overmod.

[#ditto]

[Anonymous]

The post office across the street on 8 ave side is being rebuilded for the new Penn
Station. It was design be McKim, Mead and White. The same firm that design Penn Station

[oltmannd]

I have made the connection between GCT and Penn many times over the past 30 years, I greatly prefer the current arrangement, bus terminal atmosphere or not!

The trek between Penn and GCT was always a pain, whether by subway, walking or cab. (Subway was easily the least painful, though)

GCT was nice to look at, but not so nice to use! The 1970s vintage Penn Sta was not nearly as nice as the current remodelling.

I always wondered why they didn't try to arrange some direct thru service from Albany to Wash DC. I though the turboliners would have worked well in this service. As far as I know, there's still 3rd rail in the Hudson River tunnels.

And, one more semi-related item. Does anyone remember the deep-voiced train announcer who worked evenings at Penn? What a unique voice and style he had!