9% Grade, City of Madison Railway

[gabe]

I was reading another post on here and someone told mentioned that there was a 9-percent grade in Southern Indiana which is operated by the City of Madison Railway? Jumpin Jacob! [:0][wow] Can someone please tell me more? I remember driving through Madison looking at the CSX line there and noticing the branch line with a City of Madison Diesle on it.

This would suggest to me that the line is still active? Is the grade still active? Someone suggested that the Pensy had special diesles operate over it?

Can you see it from a road?

I may have to pack up my bags tonight and take a day off work tomorrow. I never thought I could see the extremities of mountain railroading right here in my home of Indiana.

Gabe

P.S. I think I find this more surprising than the death boxcars post.

[Modelcar]

....I believe I was involved in submitting to that thread and unless there is more than one location, the info I found on it has the grade at 5.89%....
Someone on here indicated it is not active now...I personally don't know.

[CShaveRR]

According to the SPV Railroad Atlas, the portion of the ex-PRR line with the steep grade (yes, 5.89% is the correct figure) has been abandoned, and the railroad only goes as far as North Madison.

The PRR had a pair of SD7s that were specifically designed for use on this hill. I'm not sure what was included in the design (this was before the days of extended-range dynamic brakes, which might have been helpful).

I beliievce that when the shortline took over the trackage in the area, the SD7s (or maybe just one of them) were included in the deal.

[locomutt]

I may be responsable for mentioning that it was an 8-9%grade,that was the last info that I had.The only thing I know,is that the rr at that time had 2 specially built,SD loco's for the grade.

To the best of my knowledge,the trackage is still in place,and the city of Madison does own all the track,and it hasn't been used for a while.[:)]

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

The SD7's which PRR bought for the line were well-equipped. Options included extra ballasting, dynamic brakes and rail washers. They stayed with PRR and eventually wound up on Penn Central's and Conrail's roster.

[Anonymous]

I didn't realize they had that many hills in southern Indiana that would require that high of a grade. Actually I didn't know they had hills in Indiana[:p] Guess I need to get out more. How long was this line used and how much traffic went over it if they only had two specially built locomotives?

[Modelcar]

....There are certain places In Indiana that have a few hills....Not very high ones but certainly not flat....Believe the highest location in Indiana is near Lynn...and the highest elevation is about 1200 ft. Our location here in Muncie is 937 at the airport and the terrain is generally flat.

[MP173]

I went to college near Madison and believe it or not NEVER took the time to go see the PRR line in operation. It did have 2 SD units that were specially equipped and others here have described the features.

Regarding why the steep grade...Madison is on the Ohio River. The floor plain is about 400 feet below (if my memory is correct) the land. The valley in that area is gorgeous. The grade down to Madison was a couple of miles at most and was straight. No curves or switchbacks....just straight down.

The geology department at my college would often hike the line in order to observe the types of rocks. It was, a walk thru history.

Sad to hear it is no longer in service, but I cant imagine any business down in Madison.

MP173

[Anonymous]

Whether that grade is actually 9% or even 5.89% as pointed out by someone else : [:0] What a rooler-coaster ride ! Does it take some other special equpment or special setups to run on that line ?

[Modelcar]

...We now believe it really is just 5.89% grade and I believe not like a roller coaster. Some have pointed out on here the engines used in more modern times did have some special features to do the job on the excess grade. As I pointed out early in this thread at one time it was a rack and pinion set up and not an adhesion process to climb and decend the grade...That was done for about 20 years.

[CShaveRR]

Trains had a nice illustrated article on the grade back in the July 1962 issue. They were talking then about PRR replacing the line's 85-pound rail with 100-pound.
(Wow! <in my best Ben Stein imitation>)

[Anonymous]

I remember there was a B&W photo of those two SD7's on Madison Hill in a Trains (or may have been Model Railroader, I forget) issue a while back. Unfortunately, I don't remember the exact issue. I think it was a 1985 issue, though.

Here's a site with some history of the locomotives used on Madison Hill:
http://hometown.aol.com/ma393/railroad/locomotives.htm

[locomutt]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Guilford350

I remember there was a B&W photo of those two SD7's on Madison Hill in a Trains (or may have been Model Railroader, I forget) issue a while back. Unfortunately, I don't remember the exact issue. I think it was a 1985 issue, though.

Here's a site with some history of the locomotives used on Madison Hill:
http://hometown.aol.com/ma393/railroad/locomotives.htm

Thanks for the link,that is very informitive.Printed out the small book.[:)]

[locomutt]

QUOTE: Originally posted by M.W. Hemphill

Locomutt, I was there two years ago and the rails were still in place. It's possible I would not have heard if they had been lifted, but I think the place is famous enough that this is unlikely to have escaped everyone's attention. There was a Railroad Reading in the magazine about a year ago about the line, and the rails must have still been in place at that time.

The 5.89% grade is the commonly cited number, though taking a short grade into three digits of accuracy is droll. The difference in rise between 5.89 and 5.88 on a thousand-foot rise (more than Madison climbs) is slightly more than one inch. You could massage the numbers that much simply by starting at a low joint at the bottom, and ending at a thick tie at the top.

Thanks Mark,I did not intentionally mislead anybody,the last that I had heard the grade was 8-9%. My great aunt lived in Beford,Ky,which is just a few miles south of Milton,Ky,where the bridge from Ky. into Madison is. Altough it's been a few years since I have been in Madison;I have seen the tracks,and can say that it is one steep grade. I SURE wouldn't want to be the recipient of a "runaway" there![:)]

Oh, yeah,they surely woudn't pull the rails up; as if they want to send anything out by rail,that's the only way.[:)]

[jeaton]

I could swear I read a story about a run-away on that line. Thought is was in Trains, but it could have been somewhere else.

As I recall the story, sometime after the PennCentral merger, the PRR locomotives used on the line was shopped at a at a former NYC facility. Appearantly the mechanics at the new shop location weren't familiar with dynamic brakes. Sort of "What the hell is this?" Outshopped locomotives are returned to service with the dynamics disabled and the engineer first discovers the discrepency when he goes over the crest of the grade and tries to apply said brakes. He managed to control speed at least enough to keep the train from going in the river, but scared the hell out of the rest of the crew. The only injury was to the flagman who bailed and got cut up by thorny bushes.

Sorry I can't remember where I saw the story, but after 63 years, some of the long term memory must be getting wrapped around and over written.

Jay

[jeaton]

Mark

Whew, thanks. I'll dig it out and post the issue later

Jay

[jeaton]

The story must be in the August 2003 issue.

Excuse me, I have to fire my librarian.

Jay

[rrnut282]

At the Indiana Children's Museum in Indy you can see the "Reuben Wells" a stocky little steamer that was used exclusivley on the line. It was the first to not use a rack to go up the hill in 1868. According to an IU website, when the hill line opened around 1841 they used 8 horses to pull up one car. Downhill, the brakeman rode a single car and used only the hand brake. What a sphincter-tightening ride that would have been![wow]

[Modelcar]

....I looked at that engine years ago and knowing not the situation of it then as being kinda special.

[Anonymous]

With all of this talk of steep grades, what is the steepest in the world that uses adhesion, no cogs? I'm thinking it's that one in Peru with the switchbacks that they show on the National Geographic special about trains, not sure though.

[Modelcar]

....I'll make my guess Switzerland...And maybe Peru 2nd.

[RKFarms]

I drove through Madison last fall on a trip to NC and planned the trip to try to get a look at this grade. It is quite steep, and a lot of it is visible from the road. Unfortunately, this is definately abandoned and some of the rail is gone. For those of you unfamiliar with Indiana, yes we have hills as well as plains. As someone mentioned earlier, this grade is a straight shot down into the Ohio river valley. Nadison is a very pretty river town-nice place to visit. Not too far from Cincinnati, Louisville and Indianapolis, all of which have plenty of rail action.

[Modelcar]

...Boy, rail missing....I'd have thought the town of Madison might have zeroed in on the fact this is a calling card for plenty of rail fans and might have capitalized on it...But seems so much of rail's interesting places get the same treatment...