CSX/Maumee & Western update

[JoeKoh]

Hi
just an update on the railspur battle between CSX and the little maumee and western.A judge has dismissed the case citing that the Maumee & Western would have to get permission from city council for a spur because their route would go over public ground.dont know all the specified laws and sub laws so for now it goes to csx.will keep you updated.[B)]
stay safe
Joe

[Big_Boy_4005]

Well that kind of sucks. I was rooting for the little guy. Doesn't CSX have to cross any land they don't own to reach the new industries?

That still leaves the question of the diamonds that CSX removed. Though I suppose that becomes a bit of a moot point if the M&W has no customers over there.

[mudchicken]

Joe:

(1) City ordinance, easement, license or contract in place already with M&W??? does CSX cross the same ground? . Besides the fact that Maumee & Western failed to do its homework (not surprised, operating guys run trains but are hardly expert in all facets of railroading - this is more up the the engineering and law department's alley. - suspect M&W has no engineering department.), if the shortline were to get permission granted by the city in a public hearing (these things take time to get 3 readings, cities move like molasses), could the suit be reinstated.

(2) Does M&W have to contend with a street crossing while CSX comes through a field?
...what is the City property for, if it is not a vacant lot.???...

(3) The diamond issue remains unresolved...wonder if the federal level STB edict will re-arrange the playing field regarding the x-ing frogs or will the costs of maintaining them under the current agreement cost M&W too much?????. (Not unusual on appeal to find the local courts passed judgement on something out of their league)....keep us updated!

Mind candy for mudchickens ( as in it's a lot of the obscure stuff that can make or break the railroad)....Industry ought to be helping get two railroads to serve the plant for competition's sake...


mc

[Big_Boy_4005]

Hey MC, when I read the documents that were linked to the original topic, I thought that the M&W had done their homework quite well. They made a compelling argument that CSX had acted unilaterally, and removed the diamonds without permission. Also that their line predated CSX's and that it was therefore CSX's responsibility to maintain.

CSX's lawyers may have one upped them though, by raising the old "you can't get there from here" defense, and moved for dismissal. If the M&W doesn't have direct access to the property in question, then the diamonds make no difference. The Judge sees that the M&W can't cross the street without the city's permission, and they haven't secured it, party over. The issue of the diamonds never gets heard, case dismissed.

Now the question is will the M&W contnue to persue the diamonds. They should if it isn't too expensive, because if they don't, their rights could be lost forever.

[JoeKoh]

MC and Big Boy
both csx and m&w have to go through a vacant lot for the spur.who do you think the city is going to grant permission for that?
and about the diamond the tracks west of the diamond from defiance to cecil have been embagoed for safety reasons(believe they still are). so all they have is a transfer track between the 2 roads.M&W cant reach ns with the embago and no diamond to cross csx.
stay safe
Joe

[mudchicken]

(1) If the city econmic development people cannot figure out a way to get two railroads to an industry to help it grow...fire them (Trump would understand)

(2) If CSX is indeed responsible for maintaining the Diamond, a suit for specific performance is in order...

(3) From what I see, neither side had its act together in the filing with STB. I suspect the argument was thrown together in less than 15 minutes and suspect as well that M&W/IHRC never took care of the records or took stock of what they should've had when assuming the railroad from N&W/NS...(poor business decision & lousy reactive knee-jerk management has doomed them)... the lawyers probably asked for documentation and M&W replied with a "deer caught in the headlight look" so typical of shortline management.

[Big_Boy_4005]

It sounds like CSX removed the diamonds to simplify their own operations. I wonder if there was anything saying that if the junction was not used for a certain amount of time by one party, that the other party could consider it abandoned, and remove it. The M&W did notify CSX within the perscribed amount of time after the diamonds were removed. That was in the court documents.

The next question is who placed the embargo on the west end of the line? FRA? Obviously the M&W has no customers in that section of track. Do they have any operations west of Defiance? I wonder what their business would look like with the full line restored. Is the track still complete from New Haven to Toledo?

Let's face it, there are really only a few ways to get freight out of the area. CSX is just sitting there waiting. If the M&W was able to pick up the cars, they would have to give them to someone else for delivery. NS or CN I'm guessing. What connections are left to the M&W? In a way, this could almost be a federal case, restraint of trade. Of course I'm not a lawyer, but something here doesn't seem fair, all things being equal. Perhaps they aren't.

[mudchicken]

M&W interchanges with RailAmerica near Napoleon and connects with/ but does notr. interchange with NS near Ft. Wayne....M&W could get creative if they wanted to, the issue is more a case of is it worth it.?.

[Anonymous]

The use of some common sense in a matter like this would seem to be in order. But come to think of it common sense is a most uncommon thing, especially when real estate, railroads, politics and economics get all mixed up together.

[Big_Boy_4005]

Thanks MC, I'm working from an old railroad atlas. I see Napolean, was that Rail America track ex GTW? That means that the whole west end of the M&W is cut off with no connection, without the diamonds. Are they ready to abandon half of their mileage?

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by piouslion

The use of some common sense in a matter like this would seem to be in order. But come to think of it common sense is a most uncommon thing, especially when real estate, railroads, politics and economics get all mixed up together.

Well, if we have to use common sense, then CSX wins hands down. The service may not be very personal, given the size of the operation. But even slow service may be more efficient than 3 transfers just to make "a trip around the block" on the M&W.

There are still a few of us hopeless romantics that like it when the little guy wins.[swg]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Big_Boy_4005

QUOTE: Originally posted by piouslion

The use of some common sense in a matter like this would seem to be in order. But come to think of it common sense is a most uncommon thing, especially when real estate, railroads, politics and economics get all mixed up together.

Well, if we have to use common sense, then CSX wins hands down. The service may not be very personal, given the size of the operation. But even slow service may be more efficient than 3 transfers just to make "a trip around the block" on the M&W.

There are still a few of us hopeless romantics that like it when the little guy wins.[swg]

As I said, it is most uncommon, even for us romantics and dreamers(pardon me, Visionaries)

[mudchicken]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Big_Boy_4005

Thanks MC, I'm working from an old railroad atlas. I see Napolean, was that Rail America track ex GTW? That means that the whole west end of the M&W is cut off with no connection, without the diamonds. Are they ready to abandon half of their mileage?

The RailAmerica/ Indiana & Ohio line is ex GTW/DT&I....(Detroit & Lima Northern 1895)

[JoeKoh]

Big Boy
The M&W goes to a little town called liberty center for grain cars.also the track from Indiana to cecil is better maintained because they serve Lafarge(a cement plant) in Paulding county.
stay safe
Joe

[Anonymous]

I feel both ways about this issue.(1. I don't want them to get the diamonds back because I sit on those piled rails to watch trains.
(2. I want Maumee and Western to reach there customers. I mean it ain't every hour you see a CF7 pulling 10-15 cars.
But I wish CSX would share something besides conrail with a Jack[censored] railroad!

[Anonymous]

I forgot to mention this. Why don't the use their money to build a bridge over or under the CSX?


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Hey, it's only an idea!

[JoeKoh]

QUOTE: Originally posted by 3rr2

I forgot to mention this. Why don't the use their money to build a bridge over or under the CSX?


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Hey, it's only an idea!

well they need to fix the track beyond the diamond and they were there first so it would have to be csx building over or under.as for $$$ the M&W says whats that?[:(]
stay safe
Joe

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by JoeKoh

Big Boy
The M&W goes to a little town called liberty center for grain cars.also the track from Indiana to cecil is better maintained because they serve Lafarge(a cement plant) in Paulding county.
stay safe
Joe

Thanks Joe, I'm just trying to understand this little railroad. I see Liberty Center, that's east of Defiance and the missing diamonds. MC said there is the Rail America interchange at Napolean. All of that makes sense.

Where I'm confused is you are saying the M&W has business in Paulding County, west of the missing diamonds, but MC says there is no interchange with the NS near Fort Wayne. So where do the cement cars go?

[ValleyX]

NS and M&W interchange at Woodburn, Indiana.