uphogger When you see "post SD-60" power on Oak Creek coal trains, it's because the line from Lake Bluff to Kenosha is set up for coded cab signals (CCS) to make pilot engines unnecessary. Once upon a time, the rules called for pilot engines with automatic train stop (ATS) on the front of the road power and I've run up there with a variety of engines from GP-15's to SD40-2's equipped with ATS. The worst ever were those ex-NYC/PC/CR GP-40's that CNW bought used. You could usually guarantee something would break down on one of them.
When you see "post SD-60" power on Oak Creek coal trains, it's because the line from Lake Bluff to Kenosha is set up for coded cab signals (CCS) to make pilot engines unnecessary. Once upon a time, the rules called for pilot engines with automatic train stop (ATS) on the front of the road power and I've run up there with a variety of engines from GP-15's to SD40-2's equipped with ATS. The worst ever were those ex-NYC/PC/CR GP-40's that CNW bought used. You could usually guarantee something would break down on one of them.
uphogger When you saw the Lifesaver train with a GP-15 on each end, it was for ATS purposes. Way back in the day, there was enough autonomy between divisions that the Galena Division opted for automatic train control (ATC) while the Wisconsin opted for ATS. We still have ATS as far as Kenosha on the Kenosha Sub (Metra's North Line) and Harvard on the Harvard Sub (Metra's Northwest Line).
When you saw the Lifesaver train with a GP-15 on each end, it was for ATS purposes. Way back in the day, there was enough autonomy between divisions that the Galena Division opted for automatic train control (ATC) while the Wisconsin opted for ATS. We still have ATS as far as Kenosha on the Kenosha Sub (Metra's North Line) and Harvard on the Harvard Sub (Metra's Northwest Line).
So from Lake Bluff to Kenosha both systems are in use (ATS & CCS)?
uphogger Personally, I like the 550 because it and the 554 are still equipped with CNW nose bells. The 550 is nowhere near as ratty looking as the 9400's equipped with ATS. The 734 is another matter, but that's just an old piece of MoPac scrap, anyway.
Personally, I like the 550 because it and the 554 are still equipped with CNW nose bells. The 550 is nowhere near as ratty looking as the 9400's equipped with ATS. The 734 is another matter, but that's just an old piece of MoPac scrap, anyway.
Still, you'd think the UP could have come with something nicer-looking with ATS for the special. I remember one year I was called to work the Circus Train spot & unload in downtown Milwaukee (over the KK bridge). The Geep they gave me to work the train was the worst-looking one they had at Butler. I even went as far as asking the Terminal Superintendant for a nicer-looking one, because I knew there would be lots of people (and possible the media) on-hand to watch the unloading. I was told to just take was given me. I was almost embarrassed to take that POS for such a high-profile job.
Falcon48 BN didn't do anything like this on their Chicago-Aurora line, and BNSF still doesn't. If a passenger train is in a station, a passing train will just lay on its horn and come flying through at track speed.
BN didn't do anything like this on their Chicago-Aurora line, and BNSF still doesn't. If a passenger train is in a station, a passing train will just lay on its horn and come flying through at track speed.
In response to schlimm, yes, I'm sure about UP's (and CNW's) rule dealing with passing passenger trains stoppped in stations, since I had business reasons for becoming familiar with this rule.
However, I may not have precisely stated how the rule applies. The UP/CNW rule prohibits a train from ENTERING certain stations when a passenger train is loading or unloading. A freight train can enter a station when a passenger train is APPROACHING it - the restriction only applies to a passenger train that has stopped and is entraining or detraining passengers. That means it is entirely possible that you could get off a passenger train at Wheaton and have to wait for a freight train to clear, if the freight train entered the station before the passenger train came to a stop. Or, a freight train could enter a station after a passenger train had closed its doors and was departing, which could, again, require passengers who had left the train to wait for the freight train to pass before crossing the tracks. What you shouldn't have seen (at least before the new systems were implemented) was a freight train entering a station while a passenger train was actually stopped. The engineers of the various trains would communicate with each other by radio to coordinate their movements and prevent this from happening (for example, the commuter train might lay back a little and not come into a station until just after the freight had started to pass through it.).
When you see "post SD-60" power on Oak Creek coal trains, it's because the line from Lake Bluff to Kenosha is set up for coded cab signals (CCS) to make pilot engines unnecessary. Once upon a time, the rules called for pilot engines with automatic train stop (ATS) on the front of the road power and I've run up there with a variety of engines from GP-15's to SD40-2's equipped with ATS. The worst ever were those ex-NYC/PC/CR GP-40's that CNW bought used. You could usually guarantee something would break down on one of them. When you saw the Lifesaver train with a GP-15 on each end, it was for ATS purposes. Way back in the day, there was enough autonomy between divisions that the Galena Division opted for automatic train control (ATC) while the Wisconsin opted for ATS. We still have ATS as far as Kenosha on the Kenosha Sub (Metra's North Line) and Harvard on the Harvard Sub (Metra's Northwest Line). Personally, I like the 550 because it and the 554 are still equipped with CNW nose bells. The 550 is nowhere near as ratty looking as the 9400's equipped with ATS. The 734 is another matter, but that's just an old piece of MoPac scrap, anyway.
zardoz A few shots of the special: [snipped] I tried to post the photos here, but I guess I'm just not techie enough.
I tried to post the photos here, but I guess I'm just not techie enough.
Cripes - looks like a new record for power-to-cars ratio - "1 loco, 1 car" ! Even allowing for the Geeps, the average has to be around 3,000 HP per car, or maybe 40 to 50 HP per ton ! That's almost enough to turn in a decent showing while drag-racing an automobile on that parallel concrete road ! (I know, though - not all are 'on-line').
Youre tantalizingly close on accomplishing the 'techie' thing. Try this:
- Do a "Reply' to get a fresh 'screen'.
- Type {img}{/img} without any spaces between anything there - except instead of the braces - { and } - that I had to use, you use the squared-off brackets, [ and ] ;
- Paste the URL for one of your photos right in the middle between the back-to-back brackets - ][
- Then click on the "Post" and you're done !
Just wait until it's acknowledged as having been accepted and posted, and your photo should appear in your new post when you either refresh or return to the thread, etc.
Good luck with it !
- Paul North.
schlimm Falcon48: UP/CNW's (which historically have not allowed trains to pass stopped passenger trains in stations with grade crossings). Are you sure about that? I seem to recall in the past getting off westbound suburban trains in Wheaton and waiting for freights to pass on the center track, usually moving at a pretty good speed.
Falcon48: UP/CNW's (which historically have not allowed trains to pass stopped passenger trains in stations with grade crossings).
UP/CNW's (which historically have not allowed trains to pass stopped passenger trains in stations with grade crossings).
Are you sure about that? I seem to recall in the past getting off westbound suburban trains in Wheaton and waiting for freights to pass on the center track, usually moving at a pretty good speed.
A few shots of the special:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jim53171/5638432300/http://www.flickr.com/photos/jim53171/5637859797/http://www.flickr.com/photos/jim53171/5638444570/http://www.flickr.com/photos/jim53171/5637871693/http://www.flickr.com/photos/jim53171/5638455302/
Falcon48 UP/CNW's (which historically have not allowed trains to pass stopped passenger trains in stations with grade crossings).
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
Altafest I am guessing the train should consist of three UP business cars, with the UP 7400 on one end and the UP 2010 on the other end, operating in Pull-Pull mode. I saw the 7400 and 2010 in at Proviso last week when I went to work on the ZG2LT and three business cars at W. Chicago. Friday when I came back through they were all put together. They were running employee appreciation trains to Belividere on Sat and Sunday.
I am guessing the train should consist of three UP business cars, with the UP 7400 on one end and the UP 2010 on the other end, operating in Pull-Pull mode. I saw the 7400 and 2010 in at Proviso last week when I went to work on the ZG2LT and three business cars at W. Chicago. Friday when I came back through they were all put together. They were running employee appreciation trains to Belividere on Sat and Sunday.
AltafestIf they go up the Harvard and North Lines expect an ATS equipped unit to be on the point on each end. Last year they put two ratty looking ATS equipped 9400 series Dash 8's on the point for the runs in ATS territory.
I wonder why they used the Geeps--I've seen Oak Creek coal trains on the line being led by post-SD60 power.
They left kenosha around 1115 today.
I am guessing the train should consist of three UP business cars, with the UP 7400 on one end and the UP 2010 on the other end, operating in Pull-Pull mode. I saw the 7400 and 2010 in at Proviso last week when I went to work on the ZG2LT and three business cars at W. Chicago. Friday when I came back through they were all put together. They were running employee appreciation trains to Belividere on Sat and Sunday. If they go up the Harvard and North Lines expect an ATS equipped unit to be on the point on each end. Last year they put two ratty looking ATS equipped 9400 series Dash 8's on the point for the runs in ATS territory.
Paul_D_North_Jr Close call - good odds. Actual crash - heavily against, just because it's a different train - although maybe that will induce indifference instead, since it's not one of the regulars whose danger is well-known and accepted . . . Recall from an article in Trains that the Rock Island's Jet Rocket had that CCTV feature, and supposedly there was a close call almost every trip, which did wonders for the bar car revenues . . . Considering all the mentions in this notice of pedestrians, and the behaviors described in the concurrent "Advance Train Warning System" ("ATWS") tread here, they may well see a pedestrian incident, esp. if they pass a regular Metra train that's stopped at a station. It may become more realistic than they anticipate . . . - Paul North.
Close call - good odds. Actual crash - heavily against, just because it's a different train - although maybe that will induce indifference instead, since it's not one of the regulars whose danger is well-known and accepted . . .
Recall from an article in Trains that the Rock Island's Jet Rocket had that CCTV feature, and supposedly there was a close call almost every trip, which did wonders for the bar car revenues . . .
Considering all the mentions in this notice of pedestrians, and the behaviors described in the concurrent "Advance Train Warning System" ("ATWS") tread here, they may well see a pedestrian incident, esp. if they pass a regular Metra train that's stopped at a station. It may become more realistic than they anticipate . . .
Just to clarify something about passing regular Metra trains stopped in stations, BNSF does this all the time on its Chicago-Aurora line, and has done so for eons. Their engineers just lay on their horns as they fly by. I've been told (although I've never seen the supporting numbers) that BNSF's accident experience with this practice is similar to UP/CNW's (which historically have not allowed trains to pass stopped passenger trains in stations with grade crossings). I think the problem UP is trying to address with ATWS isn't that the "passing stopped trains" practice is inherently unsafe. Rather, it is that they are CHANGING exisiting practices and expectations.
Point noted and well-taken - seems familiar, and I concur - just wanted to make the case for it. But in the circumstances you outline, that would not be fair, and no sense alienating an otherwise railroad-cooperative spouse, particularly if there's not a compelling need, reason, or justification to go see or experience something rare, etc.
I don't expect to, or really need to, ride a train like this. If, after days of driving, I wake up on time to get to Joliet, and leave my wife to put things away, do laundry, retrieve our mail (how, without a car?), etc., I don't think that would be very nice...particularly when this vacation was (and still is!) so much about trains.
Mr. Railman: can you tell me about any alternative route that a UP train would take between West Chicago and Union other than its own line from West Chicago to Union, a.k.a. the Belvidere Sub?
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
Carl - Well, it would be by another mode, with a lot more interior room - and someone else would be doing the 'driving' . . . Also, it's not like you've got to pack for another overnight or anything . . . Besides, what other commitments do you have, and when else will you have this kind of an opportunity ? - during a weekday yet ?
Mr. Railman - I have no idea what the route will be. That's why I posted all the info I had, so that perhaps someone else here who is more familiar with that area could make an educated guess.
So what's the route of the West Chicago to Union one?
Although I'd really love to see what's what at Global 4 next week, I know what the answer (and, yes, the inclination) would be for another trip the day after our nearly-two-week auto cruise.
There will also be a public open house at Joliet (Global 4) before the excursions out of there. The city of Joliet and the UP have been advertising both the open house and the special trains for a couple weeks now.
Paul_D_North_Jr Close call - good odds. Actual crash - heavily against, just because it's a different train - although maybe that will induce indifference instead, since it's not one of the regulars whose danger is well-known and accepted . . - Paul North.
Close call - good odds. Actual crash - heavily against, just because it's a different train - although maybe that will induce indifference instead, since it's not one of the regulars whose danger is well-known and accepted . . - Paul North.
FWIW, if I had to bet, I would give the odds as slightly higher that the special would have a crossing incident; after all, this train will be highballing thru stations where the locals have come to expect trains to stop (although this would be more likely on routes like the North Line from Chicago to Lake Bluff).
No, I don't know. The 1st 4 trips are specifically limited to 150 people, but nothing about any limitations is mentioned for the Joliet event, which however is the only one to mention the UP's business cars as special equipment.
Nevertheless, considering the close proximity of all these trips in both date and location - and that none overlap - I'd guess that the UP's cars will be used for all of them. Perhaps there's something about a TV set-up or something that can comfortably accomodate only 150 or so ? Maybe it'll be in "push-mode" with the theater-seating picture-window glass-ended inspection/ observation car leading ? Have half of the group in it on each leg ?
But that's why I wanted to get the word out, so there's enough time to maybe do some supplemental research locally.
Paul,
I see that there will be special equipment at Joliet; do you know if the trips will be using standard Metra equipment?
What are the odds that there will be a close call or actual crash shown on the CCTV?
Today I received a copy of a communique that the UP will be operating the above as listed below. However, the message did not specify the direction, detailed route, and/ or the "turn-around" point for some of them, so you're on your own for that information. Also, since the deadline to RSVP for the very limited number of seats available for some of these rides - typically only 150 - was 2 days ago, April 11th, I very much doubt if any seats are still available. Nevertheless, in case anyone wants to see, photograph, or perhaps even tour the train during the Open House at the Joliet Intermodal Terminal next Thursday, April 21st.
Thurs., April 14 - West Chicago Yard - "Drivers' Education"-focused train from UP's West Chicago Yard - Departs at 9:00 AM, 10:45 AM, and 12:30 PM - trips will be approx. 1 hour long.
Sat., April 16 - West Chicago Yard to Union Railroad Museum trip and tour - Depart West Chicago Yard 12:30 PM, travel to Union Railroad Museum for private tour - Arrive approx. 1:30 PM - Return to West Chicago Yard approx. 4:00 PM.
Tues., April 19 - UP Metra Northwest Line - Witness driver behavior from the train crew perspective - "See the behavior of the drivers on the UP Metra Northwest Line at railroad crossings, and witness first hand what train crew members often see as they operate their trains." Depart from Ogilvie Transportation Center 9:30 AM to Arrive Harvard, IL at 11:00 AM; Depart Harvard 11:15 AM to Arrive Ogilvie at 12:45 PM.
Weds., April 20 - UP Metra North Line - Ride the "Safety Outreach Special" and view rail crossings behavior - "See the behavior of the drivers on the UP Metra North Line at railroad crossings, and witness first hand what train crew members often see as they operate their trains." Depart from Ogilvie Transportation Center 9:30 AM to Arrive Kenosha, IL at 10:40 AM; Depart Kenosha 11:00 AM to Arrive Ogilvie at 12:10 PM.
Thurs., April 21 - Joliet Intermodal Terminal - Open House aboard the "UP Operation Lifesaver Ltd" - Union Pacific’s elite Heritage Fleet of business cars. Viewing and rides to "see the behavior of the drivers on the UP tracks at railroad crossings, and witness first hand what train crewmembers often see as they operate their trains", will be occurring at 1:00PM and 2:30 PM on April 21st.
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