Just have to know...

[Anonymous]

When Lightning strikes a rail, can the bolt travel down the rail or does it go to the ground? And if it does travel the rail, can anyone get hurt, (engineers, people near the rail, etc.?

Just have to know
Thanks

[Anonymous]

Good question.... I never thought about that one....

[Randy Stahl]

Do not stand around RR tracks during lightning, lightning will travel miles along the RR.
RR track is not a good ground, it sits on wooden ties and cannot be counted on as ground. When locomotives get struck by lightning you can bank on all the semi conductors being turned to junk. They do really strange things after a lightning strike.
Randy

[wabash1]

as randy said lightning will travel for miles until it hits a insulated joint . goes thru a few signals (road crossing and block) . ive not been hit by lightning while on a engine yet. and not really looking forward to it either.

[Anonymous]

It can go down the track. If lightning is really bad they will send everyone in the yard home.

[Anonymous]

Wow, thats a bit scary...

[Richard A]

What a great question!! I would have thought just the opposite of what everyone has said so far. So if lightening can do such damage by hitting a rail, engine or whatever, how often does it happen?

I grew up around trains (mostly passenger) in the 40's and 50's in the west Texas and southern New Mexico area and saw some magnificient electrical storms over the years. Don't remember ever hearing about a lightening strike in a yard or effecting an engine. Just lucky, I guess.

[Willy2]

I guess I won't be too close to the tracks the next time it storms!

Willy

[mudchicken]

The lightning usually strikes the highest steel conductive element. This used to be the signal/ communications pole line. With these gone, the rail is usually next.

From multiple experiences, the world turns bright blue and everybody gets an "instant afro". Know of one particular GP39-2R with ground relay problems following a lightning strike. (Quasimodo would have loved the cab of that engine)

[banghead][banghead][banghead]

[Trainnut484]

About a previous posting above, I can understand sending yard crews home during a lightning storm. Who wants to stand in the middle of a lightning rod garden of steel cars?

A crazy groundskeeper would, and try to get a couple rounds of golf in too [(-D][(-D][(-D]

Take care,

Russell

[ericsp]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Trainnut484

About a previous posting above, I can understand sending yard crews home during a lightning storm. Who wants to stand in the middle of a lightning rod garden of steel cars?

A crazy groundskeeper would, and try to get a couple rounds of golf in too [(-D][(-D][(-D]

Take care,

Russell

Most train yards still have communications towers, so I would think that they would be most likely to be hit.

[Anonymous]

We have had tracks and commo towers hit in this area. I have also been fortunate to avoid lightning strikes. It definitely does all sorts of nasty stuff to the signal systems. Whenever it happens we have all sorts of signal issues and grade crossing signal issues with stop and flag orders.

LC

[Anonymous]

I think that it will trip what is called the ground fault relay in which will knock the locomotive off line. It can be reset.

[espeefoamer]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Randy Stahl

Do not stand around RR tracks during lightning, lightning will travel miles along the RR.
RR track is not a good ground, it sits on wooden ties and cannot be counted on as ground. When locomotives get struck by lightning you can bank on all the semi conductors being turned to junk. They do really strange things after a lightning strike.
Randy

And the GP9s just keep rolling along...[:)]

[Randy Stahl]

Our sand tower likes getting struck. I hate sanding engines in a storm. Switch stands make a pretty good lightning rod too.Randy

[Train Guy 3]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Randy Stahl

Our sand tower likes getting struck. I hate sanding engines in a storm. Switch stands make a pretty good lightning rod too.Randy

Randy, have yall ever had any of the sand in the tower become super heated before? It becomes a twisted black carbon substance... it looks a lot like melted plastic.

[Randy Stahl]

I don't think the inside of the sand tower takes much of the blast, I'll bet you would be pretty safe inside. The sand laying on the ground looks funny after a strike, like snakes.
Randy

[mudchicken]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Randy Stahl

Our sand tower likes getting struck. I hate sanding engines in a storm. Switch stands make a pretty good lightning rod too.Randy

Tall Hi-star stands as opposed to a ground switch I assume...

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by M.W. Hemphill

Trains had a detailed answer to this exact question by an electrical engineer in "Ask Trains." I don't remember the exact issue, but I believe it was the March or May 2004 issue.

You guys do read the magazine ... right?

Yep. Most of the time I throw it in the grip for away from home terminal reading. You can never have enough of that...

LC

[Randy Stahl]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mudchicken

QUOTE: Originally posted by Randy Stahl

Our sand tower likes getting struck. I hate sanding engines in a storm. Switch stands make a pretty good lightning rod too.Randy

Tall Hi-star stands as opposed to a ground switch I assume...

Not always. you can't tell where lightning is going to strike. I've already seen lightning hit a switch broom that was stuck in the ballast.. missed the iron totally
Randy

[agentatascadero]

Hope this story fits the thread. It was 1949, my Dad took me on the CZ(oakland-Chicago) en route to the Chicago Railroad Fair. It was late, around midnight, on the second night, racing east out of Denver. We passed through an enormous electrical storm, it took hours. I think the entire train was awake, and it was SRO in the domes. There must have been hundreds of lightning strikes, which seemed to just disappear into the skin of the train. The crew told us we were safe as the train/rails are a perfect ground. The real light show, though, were the "fireballs", which erupted in a huge shower of sparks on impact, better than fireworks! My research says this is "ball lightning" and is very rare. I have never talked to anyone since who has seen this. So far as I know, there was no damage to the train, though I don't know if any strikes hit the locomotive. Were we just lucky?

[Hugh Jampton]

Lightning finds the path of lowest resistance to earth,, whatever it may be.

[Train Guy 3]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Randy Stahl

I don't think the inside of the sand tower takes much of the blast, I'll bet you would be pretty safe inside. The sand laying on the ground looks funny after a strike, like snakes.
Randy

Yup thats what happens.

[kwboehm]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Randy Stahl

Do not stand around RR tracks during lightning, lightning will travel miles along the RR.
RR track is not a good ground, it sits on wooden ties and cannot be counted on as ground. When locomotives get struck by lightning you can bank on all the semi conductors being turned to junk. They do really strange things after a lightning strike.
Randy

OK, I know this thread has been inactive for quite some time, but a cashier at a local gas station brought this topic up. Does the lightning fry the inards of a locomotive and what about the crew inside the cab? Are they insulated enough to not become crispy?

[Hugh Jampton]

The lightning travels through the metal of the loco (path of least resistance) so you're quite safe. This is called the Farraday cage effect and applies to planes, trains and automobiles, and ships too.
The only time your in danger is if you happen to be getting on or off the loco and have one foot on the ground and are touching the loco when it gets struck.

[zardoz]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Hugh Jampton

The lightning travels through the metal of the loco (path of least resistance) so you're quite safe. This is called the Farraday cage effect and applies to planes, trains and automobiles, and ships too.
The only time your in danger is if you happen to be getting on or off the loco and have one foot on the ground and are touching the loco when it gets struck.

That is true, but only up to a point. Yes, the charge is directed around the object struck, but at the same time the 'cage' IS electrified. So if you are touching anything INSIDE the cab of a locomotive or your car, you will pick up some of the charge; more so if you are touching a ground also.

When lightning travels throught sand, it creates what is called a fulgurite. It is usually a hollow tube of melted (and then recrystallized) sand.

Fulgurite is the varietal name given to fused Quartz, Si02, which has been fused by the action of lightning striking the Earth and locally melting the sand. The best known Fulgurites are found in Quartz sands, where the Fulgurites take the form of tubes, sometimes exceeding a half inch or more in diameter. This type of formation is called a Sand Fulgurite. As the lightning strikes the Earth and courses downward through the sand, the sand is instantly super heated (i.e., melted and fused). After cooling, glass-like hollow tubes (Fulgurites) can sometimes be located beneath the surface of the sand, generally decreasing in diameter and sometimes branching as they descend, sometimes extending for several feet. The outer surfaces sand fulgurites are often rough with adhering, unfused Quartz sand grains. The inner surfaces and openings of the tubes are usually smooth and glassy, in some specimens resembling an applied glaze, sometimes with blister-like bubbling present. Rock Fulgurites are formed when lightning strikes the surface of a rock, melting and fusing the surface, and sometimes the interior of the rock. The melting point of Si02 is 2950oF. The color of the glassy, fused Si02 varies from pale gray, to smoky gray, to shiny black. The name Fulgurite is from the Latin: FULGUR (lightning).

Lightning can travel quite a ways under ground, especially if there are underground pipes or cables to "attract" the lightning.

A note on lightning safety:

Because lightning currents don't always dissipate immediately when they reach the earth, you should know how to conduct your posture if you are ever caught unprotected in the midst of a thunderstorm. You should squat down (don't lie down!) and make sure your feet are together and not spread apart. If lightning strikes near you and doesn't find ground immediately, it may flow toward you along the ground. If your feet are apart, there is a chance the current may flow up one leg, through your body, and out the other leg. A wholly unpleasant experience.

[K. P. Harrier]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Limitedclear

Whenever [a lightning strike] happens we have all sorts of signal issues and grade crossing signal issues with stop and flag orders.

LC

You mean grade crossing devices are not as safe as grade crossing guardians as has been thought?

[Overmod]

Zardoz -- my understanding was that if you were inside an electrostatically-charged Faraday cage and touched the wall, there would be little if any spark.

Remember the formulas for charge distribution in a conducting sphere, and what the charge density INSIDE the sphere is? There might be some asymmetries in a metal cab that would allow small currents to flow -- but I'd expect these to be about on the order of the spark you'd get shuffling across a carpeted floor and touching a doorknob: high voltage, very low current. And, of course, not passing through the heart in the critical range of either current or voltage...

Much more significant, I think, would be a strike introduced into the cab through some of the insulated wiring, which might allow very large current for a brief interval which would then happily discharge to the "Faraday cage." Randy! What's the breakdown voltage for the path between the engineer's hand and the most likely parts of the throttle control? ;-}

[Randy Stahl]

The engineer is pretty safe. The controller handles are phenolic or plastic, however the airbrake handles are often steel. The best /worst scenario would be the air piping getting a blast to the engineer. In my experience , locomotives do some strange things after a lightning strike, most of the time semi conductors are trashed causing odd feedbacks.
Randy

[tree68]

QUOTE: Originally posted by K. P. Harrier

QUOTE: Originally posted by Limitedclear

Whenever [a lightning strike] happens we have all sorts of signal issues and grade crossing signal issues with stop and flag orders.
LC

You mean grade crossing devices are not as safe as grade crossing guardians as has been thought?

Just like just about anything, if lighting strikes, all bets are off. You can be assured that the designers have taken lightning into consideration when they built the machine. Most likely RR signal equipment will fare better than the appliances in your home if struck...

The same can be said for traffic lights...