Cost of building a railroad

[fuzzybroken]

Here in Wisconsin, talk is being thrown around about rebuilding several track sections that have been out of service for quite some time. What would be the costs involved in such a project? Say, on a $-per-tie, ties-per-mile, $-per-foot of rail, etc. basis.

Hopeful for the future of Wisconsin railroading!
-Mark
Milwaukee, WI
http://www.geocities.com/fuzzybroken

[Randy Stahl]

The short line RR association states that the approximate cost to replace a tie is around $30.00. a safe estimate to build a RR on existing ROW is about 1 million dollars per mile.
Randy

[Anonymous]

Randy-

I think your pricing is a bit dated. Currently, new hardwood crossties are sold for at least $20 delivered. Installed cost including labor and equipment is about $50 to $60 depending upon contractor. You might be able to get some volume discount but I doubt you'd get near $30/tie installed. Recent litigation has put some major crosstie treating plants out of business and that plus competition for good timber with the booming housing business has forced prices up.

LC

[Anonymous]

As to the costs of rebuilding on an existing roadbed, it can be done quite cheaply as Mark suggests. I recall that the P&W rebuilt some sections around Hartford, CT after acquiring a smaller shortline a few years back for about $200,000/mile.

LC

[Randy Stahl]

I guess the fact is I am rather dated. I was buying them for $7.00 ea. new. Is a pail of spikes still $25.00?
Randy

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Randy Stahl

I guess the fact is I am rather dated.
Randy

Hey, you are the locomotive god. Let us poor peons worry about the track...we need to run over it, after all. You really should try road power, nothing talks like 16 cylinders (ok, so your used to working on 20, so who's counting...lol)

LC

[Randy Stahl]

LC
I appreciate your sense of humor,, thanks.
Randy

[traingeek087]

A concrete tie is the way to go for class 1 railroads. They cost $50 a piece and are suppose to last for 50 years.

[Anonymous]

Randy-

I was just involved in a project for a business putting in a siding (I do a little bit of side consulting where possible) and we were able to buy new ties premium grade 6"x8" (no IGs even available for less) for $24 each. I have forgotten what we paid for the OTM. I'll have to check my numbers on spikes, I don't remember that one offhand.

LC

[Randy Stahl]

LC
I'ts hard to admit that the years are catching up fast, I'm sitting here thinking that 15 years ago I was swinging a spike mall after one of the many layoffs I had to endure, alot has changed since then ( ask my ex wives). It's a difficult time for me here on the CN watching my friends gettin canned. Who knows maybe a spike mall will find it's way into my hands again..LOL
Randy

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by traingeek087

A concrete tie is the way to go for class 1 railroads. They cost $50 a piece and are suppose to last for 50 years.

I love how all the railfans just love concrete ties. Ever seen what happens to them in a derailment?? Well, they shatter. I can buy exotic wood ties (from South America) for $36/tie that will also last 50 years, are not treated and won't shatter. I only wish railroads could afford them. The extra $26 per tie for concrete adds up WAY too fast. Remember also, when you lay concrete you need to replace ALL the ties. You can't mix them with wood. At 3,249 ties per mile on main line your concrete ties cost $162,450 uninstalled. Remember that installing concrete ties requies specialized heavy equipment to lay the ties and specialized OTM including pandrol clips or similar to hold the rail to the ties.
They cost a good deal more than spikes and plates. I'd venture a guess that you'd be lucky to get your 1 mile of concrete ties installed for under $300,000.

I can replace every other tie with a new oak treated 7"x9" tie for only $97,470 installed. That is a fix that will last on most short lines and secondary tracks until well after I retire (30+ years). Add to that extreme pressures to keep capital costs down. What would you as a Chief Engineer of a railroad do? Probably just what most do. Put concrete only where there is no alternative.

LC

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Randy Stahl

LC
I'ts hard to admit that the years are catching up fast, I'm sitting here thinking that 15 years ago I was swinging a spike mall after one of the many layoffs I had to endure, alot has changed since then ( ask my ex wives). It's a difficult time for me here on the CN watching my friends gettin canned. Who knows maybe a spike mall will find it's way into my hands again..LOL
Randy

Good mechanical folks, especially electricians are always in short supply. I'm sure you can find work if you need it. Also, if you will bear with me for one more anecdote, here we have a small mechanical facility that has electricians, one machinist and several carmen and one supervisor. In the CR days it was just carmen. Employment has actually grown there since NS took over our district. During the takeover the FRA caught on to the fact that there was no maintenance facility there for locomotives. They came in like gangbusters. In short, the big RRs can only cut so far. There will always be a need for folks to keep stuff running. We engineers need someone to send notes to. Have you ever seen that list of airline pilots complaints and their mechanical guys responses, hilarious...think of it every time I need to fill out a defect report. I think once CN shakes out the new acquisitions a bit things will settle down, unless they buy CSXT of course, in which case, it will ba a MAJOR CLUSTER....

LC

[jeaton]

Randy,

Talk about outdated, when I last worked for a railroad we used $240k for the cost of a brand new, latest model EMD SD-series loco. Hell, I can't even remember the Model No.

If the CN gets any dumber and figures they don't need you any more, I bet there is a good chance that there are a bunch of other engine owners that would-maybe in places where the snow doesn't fly.

Jay

[Randy Stahl]

Thanks guys
Randy

[jeaton]

Noodling around on the net, just picked up on the announcement that Amtrak and Pennsylvania-the state, that is- will be putting $1.4 million per mile in the 105 mile Keystone Corridor, Philly to Harrisburg. Of course, details weren't provided, Will make it good for 90 minute express runs, and assume that means a good part will be at least 100 MPH track.

I wonder how that compares to adding an additional lane to 105 miles of Interstate Highway?

Jay

[Anonymous]

Randy-

Recent cost of a keg of track spikes (5/8" x 6") @200 spikes/keg is $75.

LC

[traingeek087]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Limitedclear

QUOTE: Originally posted by traingeek087

A concrete tie is the way to go for class 1 railroads. They cost $50 a piece and are suppose to last for 50 years.

I love how all the railfans just love concrete ties. Ever seen what happens to them in a derailment?? Well, they shatter. I can buy exotic wood ties (from South America) for $36/tie that will also last 50 years, are not treated and won't shatter. I only wish railroads could afford them. The extra $26 per tie for concrete adds up WAY too fast. Remember also, when you lay concrete you need to replace ALL the ties. You can't mix them with wood. At 3,249 ties per mile on main line your concrete ties cost $162,450 uninstalled.
I can replace every other tie with a new oak treated 7"x9" tie for only $97,470 installed. That is a fix that will last on most short lines and secondary tracks until well after I retire (30+ years). Add to that extreme pressures to keep capital costs down. What would you as a Chief Engineer of a railroad do? Probably just what most do. Put concrete only where there is no alternative.

LC

I wouldn't exactly say you can't mix them together, the town that I live in the railroad has done it. it's just it takes time to do it. I have seen wrecks on mainlines with concrete ties before, yeah they can get pretty beat up, but so can wooden ones. by the way, I never said I like concrete ties.

[mudchicken]

QUOTE: Originally posted by traingeek087

A concrete tie is the way to go for class 1 railroads. They cost $50 a piece and are suppose to last for 50 years.

I needed a good guffaw today....

LC is correct in his response and if you put those concrete hummers on an existing subgrade, say hello to the mudmonster. (as in subgrade failure)

[banghead][banghead][banghead]

[jeaton]

Those concrete ties sure seem to be touchy little suckers! Just out of curiosity, were or are, the ties made as strong as posible consistant with concrete technology? Realizing that such ties might be too pricey.

Jay

[Randy Stahl]

Good god, I was off by $50.00 for a keg of spikes!!!!It's been a long time!!!!
Randy

[tree68]

It seems that concrete ties are either a greatest thing ever or a pestilence upon the earth. As us usually the case, the truth is probably somewhere in the middle, and I'm sure that they are a tool that has a place.

Wood ties date to the beginning of railroading. I've now learned there are steel ties. Has there been anything done with plastic ties? I'm not trying to sell them, but everything else seems to be made of plastic...

I'm sure they would actually be a composite of some sort, as pure plastic probably wouldn't be rigid enough to do the job. Rot would be a thing of the past, although plastic can decompose. They might even be a bit 'slippery', meaning that damage from a derailment could be minor. With all the plastic that is supposedly being recycled now, raw material shouldn't be an issue.

[jchnhtfd]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jeaton

Noodling around on the net, just picked up on the announcement that Amtrak and Pennsylvania-the state, that is- will be putting $1.4 million per mile in the 105 mile Keystone Corridor, Philly to Harrisburg. Of course, details weren't provided, Will make it good for 90 minute express runs, and assume that means a good part will be at least 100 MPH track.

I wonder how that compares to adding an additional lane to 105 miles of Interstate Highway?

Jay

[:D][:D][:D] Jay -- just hit your post -- try on the order of $1,000,000 per lane-mile, assuming you already own the right of way. So... 105 miles, one lane each way... $200,000,000.[:)]

You can build a lot of track for that...[:D]