Rails to Trails

[wcfan4ever]

I only wi***hey were Trails to Rails. Here in Wisconsin, we have too many Rails to Trails. More and more seem to show up everyday. It is sad to see all the rails being pulled up and made for bikers. The former main CNW line from Chicago to Green Bay and points north was taken out in 1996 by WC to prevent UP from buying up the lakeshore track to Green Bay. The line is still owned by the railroad to my knowledge. I have heard of a possible sale to the state but nothing confirmed. The line is not that overgrown yet and could still have tracks put back in at the cost of mere millions. So many tracks get turned into so many trails. It is nice though to ride or walk the former ROW without getting in trouble for tresspassing though.

[jeaton]

Along this line, this one is probably for Mudchicken. In 1943, the CMStP&P abandoned a branch line that ran off the Valley Line between Merrill and Tomahawk, WI through the Village of Gleason and then southeastward through the farm my father bought in 1947. My mother recently conveyed the farm to my brother and myself and the abstract still indicated the right-of-way as CMStP&P property.

If the MILW retained ownership of the property, it seems it would have either gone to the Wisconsin Central with the spin-off, thence CN, or conveyed to the CP as part of the "merger". I touched base with both the CN & the CP RE Departments and neither had a clue.

Question is, would STB have held abandonment records going back that far, and if so, do the records indicate any direction of ownership? Guess I could contact them, but maybe you have an idea of who to reach.

Although it predated the rails to trails thing, the ROW has been maintained as a winter snowmobile trail by a local nonprofit group (Snowmobile Foamers as we railfan types would call them).

Jay

[Modelcar]

MC....A nice quartet of gold stars for you...

[Modelcar]

Yes, it's either to be used as a Trail for people or a railroad....Not both..! I believe most of us would like to see trains running where they once did but if that is not happening the Trail does preserve the space and it now makes a great [paved], place to walk and exercise. Granddaughter and I were doing just that this very morning and yesterday too...Just as we arrived at the "Depot"....Now Trail Head, we got to see a NS train come through on the adjacent track [for a short distance], as we started to walk. Operating track separated by steel fence as it passes the Depot.

[mudchicken]

CBQ Guy - Thimk!

[CBQ_Guy]

Personally, I'd prefer to see a "Trails to Rails" movement emerge. You can still walk along the track...

[Modelcar]

...Our newly built trail here in Muncie...[several years ago], has a break of a mile or so north of here because at CSX abandonenment procedures when the Trail association was negotiating to aquire the RoW....several land owners adjacent to the RoW some how aquired the land of the RoW...whether by reclaiming after abandonment I don't know, but that seems to be the general consensus of what happened...The real facts are they somehow had the right to take over "their" land and not sell to the Trail association, so our trail has a break in it at that location and county roads have to be used to get to the connection on the "other side"....In this case the adjacent land owners DID get the land..."back".

[MP57313]

I recall reading about a branch line near Portland, OR, that ran through what later became an upper class neighborhood. In any case, after the RR (I believe SP) had stopped running on the line, the local transit agency tried to buy or take over the line. The local homeowners objected (basically saying once the RR left that was "it" -- no more trains). The homeowners used the argument that the line was no longer being used for its original purpose. I don't know who won the argument.

Another situation was in Indiana or Ohio. A telecom line was paying a lease fee for its fiber optic lines that ran along an RR. When the RR pulled up spikes it was discovered that the RR never owned the land at all...maintaining accurate property lists probably falls down the priority list for a RR facing financial difficulty

In any case the biggest hurdles I am aware of are not rails-to-trails, but instead when long dormant lines are opended up again (BN's Stampede Pass; MBTA commuter rail extensions south of Boston).

Too many realtors tell potential home owners "oh they don't use the tracks anymore" without realizing that the lines could get reactivated

[mudchicken]

Should answer most of the questions. Have seen two trails revert to freight railroad status in the past three years (over the objection of trail users who clearly took the money, but never read the enabling bill that supplied the funds......IF ALL ELSE FAILS, READ!

http://www.stb.dot.gov/stb/public/resources_railstrails.html


[banghead][banghead][banghead][banghead][banghead] ' Ol Iron Feathers

ps...A Little Knowledge Is Dangerous Department: Despite what far too many folks think, railroads do NOT automatically revert to adjoining landowners when abandoned. (All railroad rights of way are not easements either! - I could retire right now if I got a nickel for every blunder in that department I've seen in the US)....) Railroads and the ICC/STB know how the railroads were pieced together and by what color of title in their DV-107 , DV-108 Land schedules (Class 1's are supposed to keep them current).

[Anonymous]

A section of right of way has been converted in southern Mississippi. 47 miles in length. The State of Mississippi now owns the right of way. It is a section of abandoned Illinois Central track. Funding was through state and federal funds. The second phase of the construction project included five restroom facilities along the path, with the headquarters building located in Hattiesburg, Mississippi. The headquarters building includes a leased space that is leased to a bicycle shop. It also has space for private or civic organizations in the form a meeting room with projection equipment for meetings.

It has been very successful in the 2 years that it has been open. Further construction to the east is scheduled with an overpass over US Highway 49. No time frame on that phase of the project. My Boy Scout troop bicycled the trail back in April and thoroughly enjoyed it.

[Modelcar]

....Agree with the above post on trails back to rails....One thing would be the fact if the rail RoW is converted to a trail... the route would still be intact for any future thought of rebuilding back to a railroad. How that would have to happen would probably be different in each specific case. We have a paved 20 mile trail here in Muncie and they continue to build to it....7 more miles are under construction now and when it is finished it will stretch many miles more. I believe our Cardinal Greenway organazation ownes outright the ex. rail RoW it is placed on.

[MP57313]

Eric,
That is not always the case. Often rails to trails preserve the corridor for recreation, but they do not always own the land itself.
In some cases the rail line never actually owned the land they used, but rather had an easement from the various property owners along the way. There have been situations where the rules are "one the railroad leaves, the land reverts to the property owners".
As you've probably seen, it is usally extremely difficult to get a line rebuilt once the rails are removed. It has been done for transit lines, but I'm not sure if the same is true for freight railroads.
The rebuilt rail line would probably need to have a very-well-connected developer or some other person associated with it to get the ok to rebuild the line.

[ericsp]

I seem to recall hearing somewhere that the purpose of Rail to Trails is to perserve the right of way for future use as a rail line again. Is this correct? If so, what must be done (legally) before the rails can be put back in?