I think a broad hint was dropped by both Hammond, Cameron and everyone else involved. Get the business case prepared for the Valleys pdq as that
will be the next place for the Wires as ye old rolling stocke is coming toward the replacement period. A very sensible suggestion and now that the referendum has
been passed the WAG can get on, plan and use the block grant to their hearts content with a little cash thrown in from the centre.
Cogload,
I'm with you on the idiotic idea to replace our almost 100% reliable HSTs with Heath-Robinson machines. But then the case for electrifying the GW main lines will always be difficult as so much mileage is two track, requiring almost all the diversionary routes to be electrified at the same time to prevent as far as possible service stoppages due to trackwork / wiring maintenance / dewiring incidents / other accidents and stoppages. Arguably, it might be better if Paddington to Bristol via Badminton, Bath and Trowbridge should have been completed first, followed at a respectable gap by Filton to Swansea accompanied by Swindon - Gloucester - Newport plus Cardiff - Barry - Bridgend.
Neeedless to say, our local politicos are whipping up a lather of indignation, but it's a bit rich to hear Swansea civic leaders complain that they will miss out on electric trains when their own predecessors meekly allowed the world's first passenger railway, by then electrified, to be closed down in the 1960s. I refer of course to the Mumbles Railway of March 1807.
I have to disagree with you over the common view acroos Offa's *** that passenger business west of Cardiff is weak. Truth to tell, the volume of freight it always carried led to the GWR and later BR suppressing passenger traffic just to enable freights to get through that difficult 45 miles or so. How busy was it, well in steam days, a Llanelli or Pantyffynnon - Severn Tunnel Jct or Pontypool Road through freight would be allowed anywhere between 7 and 9 hours for the trip - around 10 mph average. For the trainmen, it was Double Home working / Lodging or Relief on route. I honestly believe that stepping up the frequency of local services between Llanelli and Newport would see a dramatic lift in numbers and revenue. Isn't it funny how routes paralleled by Motorways end up being the strongest for passenger growth.
One last thing, David Cameron spoke at Cardiff last weekend about this decision to stop electrifying at Cardiff, but in the midst of the bollockspeak, he remarked / let slip that a better business case mights be made for electirying the Valley Lines network than the Cardiff to Swansea extension. Lot of sense there from where I'm seeing things. A nice compact network of busy shuttle services serving linear towns up and down the valleys, a population increasingly looking to Cardiff for education, eployment and entertainment and sporting attractions, intensively timtabled between 6:00 a.m. and 12 midnight or so daily, with little dwell time at termini, and opportunities to regenerate going downhill, Ideal electric train territory, wouldn't you say?.
I wonder???
Hwyl,
Martin
This is an interesting story in that the wiring (at long last - I have sloths move faster than British politicans about the railways) is mixed in with the demise, sorry replacement of the worlds finest diesel passenger train (FACT). The machine which saved British Intercity rail travel is getting on in years and whilst it still thrashes all and sundry around it into a cocked hat, a replacement is required.
So some bright spark (groan) had an idea. These are rare events indeed in DaFT (Department of Transport) and then another bright spark noticed that the price of Oil was also rising (The Shelties have just discovered another monster field in the Atlantic - the Family estate is going to be rich!!), this combined with a gradual realisation that bionic duckweed driven trains was not going to be the future saw an ITT for a new generation of High speed trains. Sadly, instead of being sensible - i.e wiring and where not cost effective ordering a few diesel locomotives to haul them carriages through to the final destination (say Swansea, or Pembroke Dock even) we have this utter frankenstein pottage which even Lautrec himself would be proud of. Deconstruction - you bet. bi-power units, I mean, bi-power units? has any pillock done the unsprung mass calculations in terms of axle weight?
The good news I suppose is that some sanity has been restored. Wiring up has many advantages - one being that the whole life costs are lower than diesels, especially as the source for running the good doctor's design is not going to get much cheaper over the next few years and there are less moving parts to worry about as well! So cheaper to maintain. In terms of the Great Western railway, the business case beyond Cardiff is pretty shakey as there is only one through train per hour, a limited local service and those passenger trains which do serve local stations usually travel beyond to the wilds of Pembrokeshire and the lnad that time forgot (Milford Haven). A lot of this reeks of political fudge as the wires were not going to go beyond Oxford at one stage, but sanity restored. Cardiff and then the Valleys isa good follow on. Hopefully after the Western, the Midland Main through the scenic delights of Kettering, Leicester and then onto the even more scenic delight of Sheffiled will be announced by the next CP for NR, i.e. 2015 - just in time for Mr. Clegg to save his seat at the next general election!
blue streak 1 RudyRockvilleMD: If the end of the electrification is at Cardiff will through trains between London and Swansea be hauled by diesel power all the way or would passengers for Swansea be required to transfer to diesel hauled Cardiff-Swansea shuttles? Do not know which carrier handles that line but when I last rode Virgin they used the Electric to the end of CAT. Then attached a diesel including HEP and pulled it to the end of the line. Diesel the ran around train and pulled it back to electrified portion disconnected and then PANs raised fro trip back to London.
RudyRockvilleMD: If the end of the electrification is at Cardiff will through trains between London and Swansea be hauled by diesel power all the way or would passengers for Swansea be required to transfer to diesel hauled Cardiff-Swansea shuttles?
If the end of the electrification is at Cardiff will through trains between London and Swansea be hauled by diesel power all the way or would passengers for Swansea be required to transfer to diesel hauled Cardiff-Swansea shuttles?
Do not know which carrier handles that line but when I last rode Virgin they used the Electric to the end of CAT. Then attached a diesel including HEP and pulled it to the end of the line. Diesel the ran around train and pulled it back to electrified portion disconnected and then PANs raised fro trip back to London.
That would have been on the North Wales line ro Llandudno or Holyhead out of Euston Station. This would be out of Paddington Station to the West.
RudyRockvilleMD If the end of the electrification is at Cardiff will through trains between London and Swansea be hauled by diesel power all the way or would passengers for Swansea be required to transfer to diesel hauled Cardiff-Swansea shuttles?
Maybe so, but I think a lot of those occur in Western Europe as well. In any case, we are talking about adding cat + feeders, etc. to an existing line, not upgrading it. But the cost per mile in any forecasts here seems much higher. Why?
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
schlimm One billion pounds ($1.633 bil.) to electrify a 150 mile double-tracked route. That works out to approximately $10.9 million per mile. That seems a whole lot less expensive than the numbers thrown around for electrification in the US. What gives? The UK isn't exactly rock bottom prices and labor.
One billion pounds ($1.633 bil.) to electrify a 150 mile double-tracked route. That works out to approximately $10.9 million per mile. That seems a whole lot less expensive than the numbers thrown around for electrification in the US. What gives? The UK isn't exactly rock bottom prices and labor.
This is why:
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
See Link:
http://cs.trains.com/TRCCS/forums/p/186356/2036734.aspx#2036734
The Scots have promised not to steal the Railroad's Copper!
Why is the British Government electrifying the mainline to Cardiff? The line to Cardiff caries a high level of passenger traffic as it is. Do they expect more traffic? If the end of the electrification is at Cardiff will through trains between London and Swansea be hauled by diesel power all the way or would passengers for Swansea be required to transfer to diesel hauled Cardiff-Swansea shuttles?
The British Government has decided to go ahead with plans to electrify the Great Western Mainline from London to Bristol and Cardiff. Inspite of the tough times the new Prime Minister believes that this is worthwhile. The previous Government called for electrification to Swansea (the second most populous city in Wales) and a little farther than Cardiff. Cardiff will be the end for now.
BBC story
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