It is hard to figure out Trenitalia, they really want to operate the flashy top end services (HSR) and they also seem to want to operate the second-tier IC services. But all the adjoining countries national railway companies, ÖBB, DB, SBB, and SNCF have found them not really interested in cooperating to operate cross-border services. Also they seem to feel that Regional services are not that important anymore and they don't seem to be putting in the top-tier management interest in retaining the business except in a few provinces.
Thanks a lot for the wonderful information. I can understand some of the sticking points, altho not others. I've ridden the train a goodly amount around the region, and I've found it fast, frequent, and on time, altho the equipment is a little ratty externally (regional trains only). However, service interuptions by strikes are a common occurance and a general lack of conductors checking tickets is an everyday occurance. I just returned from Venice riding 1st class on a regional. The working conductor and 4 uniformed deadhead employees chewed the fat in the seat right next to us. The conductor opened up the window at every stop to see who got on, but that was about it. I can see how fraud would be an issue. I've had 2 hour trips and never even glimpsed a conductor, much less had it punched. Well, ditto for the Trieste bus service and ACTV ( the water buses, or vaporettos in Venice). I've been to venice 14 or so times and rode the water buses almost every time and only had my ticket checked ONCE in 5-6 DOZEN boardings. Here in town we ride the buses almost daily and have been checked only 3 or 4 times in over 5 years. A bus will stop and a dozen people get on, and you never here a peep out of the ticket stampers located by the doors. When a conductor does board, it's almost a given that 2-3 people do not have a ticket. But then again, he'll only check a few then chew the fat with the driver. Maybe this whole thing is just an Italian custom. Who knows.
Thanks a lot for the wonderful information. I can understand some of the sticking points, altho not others. I've ridden the train a goodly amount around the region, and I've found it fast, frequent, and on time, altho the equipment is a little ratty externally (regional trains only). However, service interuptions by strikes are a common occurance and a general lack of conductors checking tickets is an everyday occurance. I just returned from Venice riding 1st class on a regional. The working conductor and 4 uniformed deadhead employees chewed the fat in the seat right next to us. The conductor opened up the window at every stop to see who got on, but that was about it. I can see how fraud would be an issue. I've had 2 hour trips and never even glimpsed a conductor, much less had it punched.
Well, ditto for the Trieste bus service and ACTV ( the water buses, or vaporettos in Venice). I've been to venice 14 or so times and rode the water buses almost every time and only had my ticket checked ONCE in 5-6 DOZEN boardings. Here in town we ride the buses almost daily and have been checked only 3 or 4 times in over 5 years. A bus will stop and a dozen people get on, and you never here a peep out of the ticket stampers located by the doors. When a conductor does board, it's almost a given that 2-3 people do not have a ticket. But then again, he'll only check a few then chew the fat with the driver. Maybe this whole thing is just an Italian custom. Who knows.
Thanks for those details, beaulieu - another instance of being wrong in my interpretation of the situation has led to enlightenment by someone better informed.
So this seems more like Italy's version of our practice of 'contracting out' the operation of local commuter agency/ authority services to one of competing vendors of such services - such as done by Boston's MBTA - writ large ? And this is perhaps the incumbent's come-uppance - kind of like what happended to Amtrak with one of the Washington, D.C. commuter agencies* earlier this year, per a recent column in Trains likely by Don Phillips, Fred Frailey, or Roy Blanchard, etc. ? I may be grossly oversimplifying the matter and ignoring some of the nuances, but I'm just trying to get a grasp of the basic fact-pattern and situation to understand it better, that's all.
*I can't recall which one, though - either MARTA or VRE, I believe.
Coincidentally, my daughter and her husband are traveling in central Italy now by train - Rome to Naples and back, and perhaps some other side excursions. She seems favorably impressed.
- Paul North.
Paul_D_North_Jr Seems like the Italian version of pawning Amtrak operations off onto the states, as was proposed several times over the past decade or so - with about the same predictable results. Per that famous quotation: "Those who refuse to learn from history are condemnded to repeat it." - Paul North.
Seems like the Italian version of pawning Amtrak operations off onto the states, as was proposed several times over the past decade or so - with about the same predictable results. Per that famous quotation: "Those who refuse to learn from history are condemnded to repeat it."
Not exactly, regional services have been subsidized by a combination of European States and the Federal Governments for many years. The Central Government of Italy still makes block grants for Regional transportation services. The problem is Trenitalia doesn't like the service quality requirements that the states want for their money. In other words the states want Trenitalia to make sure enough of the trains are on time, only a limited number of trains are canceled, and that Trenitalia does a good enough job of preventing fare evasion. The last is a frequent sticking point. Look for more states to contract out their regional services to someone other than Trenitalia. Lombardy formed their own company years ago, Ferrovie Nord Milano, and more recently Sudtirol Aldo-Adige formed SAT. DB of Germany is also interested in competing for these contracts.
Seems like the Italian version of pawning Amtrak operations off onto the states, as was proposed several times over the past decade or so - with about the same predictable results. Per that famous quotation: "Those who refuse to learn from history are condemned* to repeat it."
*Edited to fix typo.
I believe that Trenitalia couldn't come to terms with the Province on the subsidy.
The ÖBB now provide a service from Venezia to Wien, but right now the service is sparse. Just two Euronight trains, one from or to Wien Meidling, and one from or to Wien Westbahnhof. Look on the ÖBB website for fares and details.
ÖBB website
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