Not that CSX is "dysfunctional" or anything...

[techguy57]

In regards to the signal, the ex-CNW line that runs along the Kennedy Expressway has a similarly mounted signal just north of the Morton Salt building complex. The lines parralel the expressway yet one of the signals is facing the highway. Just wanted to pass along that it is present other than on CSX lines.

Mike

[Anonymous]

Yep, did the same thing up here. A lot cheaper to turn them then to uninstall them..

As for disfunctional... nah..... if you said that about many families, i'd say YEP! but CSX... it's not their fault they can't see straight.

[edblysard]

Yes, they can, and the first time a crew come up on it, they will stop.
Read the rule again, it states where a signal should display...
Crews know where the signals are, and if they dont have a notice in their track bulletins or special instructions telling them that this signal is out of service, they will stop and call the dispatcher, and ask.

Once they know about it being out of service, next time they will ignore it.
If it isnt out of service, they just caught a vandel.

We dont just walk out the door and get on the locomotive or train, and take off.

Before we even hit the door, the conductor has to make sure both he and the engineer have all track bulletins, slow orders, terminal instruction, special instructions and train sheets, wheel count report, hazmat info on each car in their train(sequential, by the car numbers and from the head end back) and then a general discussion about what moves they are going to make, who is going to do what, where each crew member is going to be, and how they intend to do the work., a basic job breifing.

Road conductors end up hauling around about half a phone books worth of paperwork for a 100 car train.

So, before we turn a wheel, we should have read, and made sure each of us understand whats in the track bulletins and slow order, which will tell us,
"Signal at MP 7.5, north shore sub, is removed from service on 07/05/04.
Proceed at restricted speed until next signal is visible".

So we will head that way, looking for it to be turned away from the track.

On the other hand, if we find one turned, and not listed in the bulletins or slow orders, we stop, and call it in.

The rules are a failsafe device, intended to make sure trains stop if a signal is missing, or not working.

Even if bad guys play with it, the worst that can happen is a train will have to stop and call it in.

Ed

[adrianspeeder]

So can't unfriendlys just turn signals out of the way?

Adrianspeeder

[edblysard]

Start with the signals facing 90 degrees away from the track.

Either new signals not yet working, or old signals waiting removal or change over to other controls.
Either way, the signals didnt work, and one of the GCOR and the eastern rules is,

Any signal not displaying any aspect, or a dark signal, should be treated as a absolute stop signal.

At least two rules cover this, GCOR rule 5.15, Improperly Displayed Signals, which reads;

If a signal is improperly displayed, or a signal flag, or sign is absent from the place it is usually shown, regard the signal as displaying the most restrictive indication it can give.
However, if a semaphore arm is visable, it will govern.

And rule 9.4, Improperly Displayed Signals or Absent lights, which reads:

Except as shown in block, cab, and interlocking signals aspects in the special instructions, if a light is absent or a white light is displayed where a colored or lunar light should be, regard a block or interlocking signal as displaying the most restrictive indication is can give.
However, when the semaphore arm position is plainly seen, that aspect will govern.

These rules keep trains from running a signal that has malfunctioned or has a burned out bulb.

If a crew comes up on a signal that they know should show a aspect, and it dosnt, they have to stop, so the signal dept turns old, no longer used signal heads away from the track, so the crews know the signal is not in service.

As for the 5 crews on five different units.
I am making a assumption, that they were not all MUed to each other, but five seperate MUs or single units.

All at one end of a yard, right?

If so, you most likely were watching crews that had dropped off trains, or were picking up trains after making a transfer, all waiting to be staged back out, or in line to get back to their respective "home" yards.

Some of them might be waiting to get back into the same yard, and back against a train they are taking out.

Waiting a hour on a signal, especially on a somewhat busy main line is normal.
If your light power, and the dispatcher has to decide to run you, or a loaded coal drag, which would you run?
You pointed out that at least one train either over took these ideling motors, or came from the other direction, opposing traffic.
So a lot dependes on whats in the tube on the way in.

Traffic jams occur on five lane freeways all the time, why not on single or dual lane railroads?

Go back to the same place in a day or two, at the same time, and see if it happens again.

We stage them like all that the time, keeps them out of our hair and harms way.
Some days, the north end of our yard looks like a BNSF/UP parking lot.
Ed

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates

QUOTE: Originally posted by macguy

QUOTE: Originally posted by BaltACD

QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates

QUOTE: Originally posted by BaltACD

For a train to be moved (yes, light engines constitute a train) there must be someplace available to move it to. While someone just viewing a train sitting at a signal, and seeing the track segment ahead of if as being 'empty', the next 100 miles of sidings and other track facilities may be occupied with other trains (that one can't see, unless you are dispatching the territory) and thus the train has no place to go at the point in time that you are viewing it.

The art of dispatching is not just lining up a signal for a train.....it is the art of knowing which trains to line signals for so as to satisfy the priorities of the operating plan and the Hours of Service realities of the trains being operated within the physical realities of the trains and the territory being dispatched.

I didn't mention this was at Piqua yard did I?....it was..

Even yard have capacity constraints and manpower conditions that prevent movements that would otherwise seem obvious, but aren't.

I know what you're saying, but it still seems odd to me that there would be 5 crews all running light engines and waiting in the same spot......

Surely there must have been more to it than that?

Are there that many locals around this area?

It's rare that I see a "working" CSX freight in the area, while I'll admit I have no itinerary or schedule for CSX, I only see maybe one or two a week, not that I look for them, but then I don't look because there's not much to see. .

Wild guess, maybe some of these had NS crews waiting for triple crown trains to be made up? This was right on the skirt of the Triple crown yard. Maybe the fact that they were CSX loco's sitting in a CSX yard was a misnomer?

I suppose that is a possibility, you can never tell anymore what railroad is running the trains by looking at the power.

Really could have been anything now that I think about it like that.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by macguy

QUOTE: Originally posted by BaltACD

QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates

QUOTE: Originally posted by BaltACD

For a train to be moved (yes, light engines constitute a train) there must be someplace available to move it to. While someone just viewing a train sitting at a signal, and seeing the track segment ahead of if as being 'empty', the next 100 miles of sidings and other track facilities may be occupied with other trains (that one can't see, unless you are dispatching the territory) and thus the train has no place to go at the point in time that you are viewing it.

The art of dispatching is not just lining up a signal for a train.....it is the art of knowing which trains to line signals for so as to satisfy the priorities of the operating plan and the Hours of Service realities of the trains being operated within the physical realities of the trains and the territory being dispatched.

I didn't mention this was at Piqua yard did I?....it was..

Even yard have capacity constraints and manpower conditions that prevent movements that would otherwise seem obvious, but aren't.

I know what you're saying, but it still seems odd to me that there would be 5 crews all running light engines and waiting in the same spot......

Surely there must have been more to it than that?

Are there that many locals around this area?

It's rare that I see a "working" CSX freight in the area, while I'll admit I have no itinerary or schedule for CSX, I only see maybe one or two a week, not that I look for them, but then I don't look because there's not much to see. .

Wild guess, maybe some of these had NS crews waiting for triple crown trains to be made up? This was right on the skirt of the Triple crown yard. Maybe the fact that they were CSX loco's sitting in a CSX yard was a misnomer?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BaltACD

QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates

QUOTE: Originally posted by BaltACD

For a train to be moved (yes, light engines constitute a train) there must be someplace available to move it to. While someone just viewing a train sitting at a signal, and seeing the track segment ahead of if as being 'empty', the next 100 miles of sidings and other track facilities may be occupied with other trains (that one can't see, unless you are dispatching the territory) and thus the train has no place to go at the point in time that you are viewing it.

The art of dispatching is not just lining up a signal for a train.....it is the art of knowing which trains to line signals for so as to satisfy the priorities of the operating plan and the Hours of Service realities of the trains being operated within the physical realities of the trains and the territory being dispatched.

I didn't mention this was at Piqua yard did I?....it was..

Even yard have capacity constraints and manpower conditions that prevent movements that would otherwise seem obvious, but aren't.

I know what you're saying, but it still seems odd to me that there would be 5 crews all running light engines and waiting in the same spot......

Surely there must have been more to it than that?

Are there that many locals around this area?

[BaltACD]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates

QUOTE: Originally posted by BaltACD

For a train to be moved (yes, light engines constitute a train) there must be someplace available to move it to. While someone just viewing a train sitting at a signal, and seeing the track segment ahead of if as being 'empty', the next 100 miles of sidings and other track facilities may be occupied with other trains (that one can't see, unless you are dispatching the territory) and thus the train has no place to go at the point in time that you are viewing it.

The art of dispatching is not just lining up a signal for a train.....it is the art of knowing which trains to line signals for so as to satisfy the priorities of the operating plan and the Hours of Service realities of the trains being operated within the physical realities of the trains and the territory being dispatched.

I didn't mention this was at Piqua yard did I?....it was..

Even yard have capacity constraints and manpower conditions that prevent movements that would otherwise seem obvious, but aren't.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BaltACD

For a train to be moved (yes, light engines constitute a train) there must be someplace available to move it to. While someone just viewing a train sitting at a signal, and seeing the track segment ahead of if as being 'empty', the next 100 miles of sidings and other track facilities may be occupied with other trains (that one can't see, unless you are dispatching the territory) and thus the train has no place to go at the point in time that you are viewing it.

The art of dispatching is not just lining up a signal for a train.....it is the art of knowing which trains to line signals for so as to satisfy the priorities of the operating plan and the Hours of Service realities of the trains being operated within the physical realities of the trains and the territory being dispatched.

I didn't mention this was at Piqua yard did I?....it was..

[BaltACD]

For a train to be moved (yes, light engines constitute a train) there must be someplace available to move it to. While someone just viewing a train sitting at a signal, and seeing the track segment ahead of if as being 'empty', the next 100 miles of sidings and other track facilities may be occupied with other trains (that one can't see, unless you are dispatching the territory) and thus the train has no place to go at the point in time that you are viewing it.

The art of dispatching is not just lining up a signal for a train.....it is the art of knowing which trains to line signals for so as to satisfy the priorities of the operating plan and the Hours of Service realities of the trains being operated within the physical realities of the trains and the territory being dispatched.

[Anonymous]

i see signals turned all the time while being replaced. i have seen it on the UP and the BNSF out west. it's usually the new signals that are turned away from the track untill they are all in place and the old ones are removed.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mudchicken

Crews dead on the law waiting on relief crew?

I guess thats as good a guess as any....glad I'm not a CSX stockholder

[mudchicken]

Crews dead on the law waiting on relief crew?

As for signals tuned 90 degrees, Colorado has several hundred miles of ex ABS line, now TWC with the signals turned at right angles on Kyle & CK&P(now WATCO?) .....Very common for signals to be left in place during signal system changeover to be a fallback system, especially where track circuits have not changed.

[JoeKoh]

Yes Csx has leased that line out.But here on the big line I see power moves with 4 to 6 engines all the time.
stay safe
Joe

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by macguy

There were five separate crews on five separate locos, all sitting there?

Wow, now that is a little odd....

Not sure what was going on there......

Well, it was a Holiday, maybe they were "foamers" who "seized the day"? [:o)]

seriously, someone was mentioning that a shortline leased this line from CSX, so perhaps this was one set of "pilots" training another? that's the best I can figure.

There were 5 sets of two loco's each,...as in "here a pair, there a pair, everywhere a pair pair." In a way it was neat, more CSX loco's than I've seen in this town in a long time, jus t not doing any work.

[Anonymous]

There were five separate crews on five separate locos, all sitting there?

Wow, now that is a little odd....

Not sure what was going on there......

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by macguy

The indicator lights might have been facing 90 degrees away from the track because they are no longer in use, it might have been cheaper to turn them rather than uninstalling the entire fixture.......just a guess.

Not sure what the crew was waiting for, but sometimes that's the name of the game, Hurry up and wait.

I have no doubt you are correct about the signals, but what a rinky dink way to operate.

As for the crews, there were 5 crews, 5 pairs of locos burning fuel.... over an hour and not one moved on their home rails, while an NS did barrel through.

Good thing one railroad knows how to get the work done..[:D]

[Anonymous]

The indicator lights might have been facing 90 degrees away from the track because they are no longer in use, it might have been cheaper to turn them rather than uninstalling the entire fixture.......just a guess.

Not sure what the crew was waiting for, but sometimes that's the name of the game, Hurry up and wait.

[Anonymous]

But while tracing their former Pennsy line east of town, I came across one of the old circular signal poles, with the indicator lights facing 90 degrees opposed to the track.

Closer to town I saw 5 pairs of running loco's, just sitting crewed and idle, no cars whatso ever. expecting that a change might be emminent, I waited and watched for an hour, and one triple crown train with NS power "came through", still the CSX crews waited.....h'mmmm I want a job working for CSX