Calling all Forum Folk - help on name for wheel arrangement

[Anonymous]

Here's a link with a whole bunch of names for wheel arrangements......

http://www.steamlocomotive.com/misc/wheels.html

...looks as though there is no name for the 2-6-6-2 on that list. [?]

[M636C]

Dave,

They were still fairly slow, but powerful and economical on fuel. Norfolk and Western really liked them and kept them until the end of steam operation. They were still expensive to build and maintain compared to (say) a big 4-8-4 of the same size but were better for slow operation on steep grades.

Peter

[Kozzie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by M636C

Dave,

The use of steam twice in compound cylinders was more economical and reduced fuel consumption. It also allowed more powerful locomotives to be built with a given size of boiler. This is mentioned in the recent "Steam Glory" magazine.

It was expensive because the locomotives were complicated, and the fuel savings were not as big as had been hoped. All this was before superheating was developed (in Germany by Wilhem Schmidt about 1900). However, superheating had problems, mainly because the hotter steam needed better cylinder lubricating oil, and this wasn't overcome until about 1910. In the USA, very few compound locomotives were built after 1910, except for the Mallets which were also now superheated, the combination being quite economical on fuel and water.

During and after WW II, the US Army called their 2-8-2s "MacArthur" after the General, Mikado being a name for the Emperor of Japan (who they were fighting at the time). The Chinese adopted this name also, and twenty Australian -built locomotives for China were called this - they weren't delivered because of the Communist revolution and stayed in Australia. Around 1960, the Chinese changed the name for 2-8-2 to Jie Fang (meaning "Liberation"). I don't know if the term MIkado came back in the 1949 - 1960 period.

The diagrams of planned Santa Fe multi-engine steam locomotives are also in "Iron Horses of the Santa Fe Trail" by Worley, and I think they appeared in a mid 1970s issue of "Trains" as well.

Erie and Virginian built "Triplex"locomotives (3 and 1 total 4) that had only one size of cylinder, but the steam started in the middle set, and then half each went both forward to the front set and back to a set of cylinders driving wheels under the tender. These were six cylinder compounds, NOT "triple expansion" locomotives, although their name "Triplex" suggested this. They operated between 1914 and 1933. the VGN loco was rebuilt as a 2-8+8-0 (and a 2-8-2). See Drury's "Guideto N A Steam" page 174.

Peter

Thanks Peter [:)] [;)] So, one could possibly say that, post 1910 with the right lubricating oil, a superheated compound articualted loco was quite a good package? [;)]

Dave

[M636C]

Dave,

The use of steam twice in compound cylinders was more economical and reduced fuel consumption. It also allowed more powerful locomotives to be built with a given size of boiler. This is mentioned in the recent "Steam Glory" magazine.

It was expensive because the locomotives were complicated, and the fuel savings were not as big as had been hoped. All this was before superheating was developed (in Germany by Wilhem Schmidt about 1900). However, superheating had problems, mainly because the hotter steam needed better cylinder lubricating oil, and this wasn't overcome until about 1910. In the USA, very few compound locomotives were built after 1910, except for the Mallets which were also now superheated, the combination being quite economical on fuel and water.

During and after WW II, the US Army called their 2-8-2s "MacArthur" after the General, Mikado being a name for the Emperor of Japan (who they were fighting at the time). The Chinese adopted this name also, and twenty Australian -built locomotives for China were called this - they weren't delivered because of the Communist revolution and stayed in Australia. Around 1960, the Chinese changed the name for 2-8-2 to Jie Fang (meaning "Liberation"). I don't know if the term MIkado came back in the 1949 - 1960 period.

The diagrams of planned Santa Fe multi-engine steam locomotives are also in "Iron Horses of the Santa Fe Trail" by Worley, and I think they appeared in a mid 1970s issue of "Trains" as well.

Erie and Virginian built "Triplex"locomotives (3 and 1 total 4) that had only one size of cylinder, but the steam started in the middle set, and then half each went both forward to the front set and back to a set of cylinders driving wheels under the tender. These were six cylinder compounds, NOT "triple expansion" locomotives, although their name "Triplex" suggested this. They operated between 1914 and 1933. the VGN loco was rebuilt as a 2-8+8-0 (and a 2-8-2). See Drury's "Guideto N A Steam" page 174.

Peter

[Anonymous]

espeefoamer, do you have a picture of that N-guage 2-8-8-8-8-2?
TrainFreak409, where can I get a copy of that magazine?

[Kozzie]

Hey everyone! Thanks for all your comments!

It's very helpful. So could one say that having different cylinders sizes for the differences in pressure was a better design?

Dave

[Anonymous]

Where in the world did Quadriplexes and Quintiplexes? (although they sound awesome) Oh, does anybody have any pictures of centipedes? 2-6-6-6-2 arrangement I believe.

[espeefoamer]

Many years ago, I met a man at a hobby shop who had an N gauge 2-8-8-8-8-2 he had built.He told me the Santa Fe had plans for such an engine.I'd like to see that going around a curve!

[route_rock]

C&O called their 2-8-8-2's Chesapeake's (didnt last long train crews called em simple simons)I dont think anyone really named articulateds besides Big Boy Challenger and Yellowstone.I noticed the term Mikado for Chinese locos . I would have thought they would have done what some roads did here in WWII and renamed them (like we did)cause of the connotations of Mikado being Emperor or some such translation(a little help people I cant think[banghead])UP called em Macarthurs I do believe.

[daveklepper]

Note two or more names for some types: 4-8-2, Mountain and Mowhawk 4-6-4, Hudson, Baltic, Shoreliner 2-8-4 Birkshire, Kanewah(sp?) 4-8-4 Northern, Niagra (NYC)

Note the difference between a Forney and a Fairley, with both available as 0-4-4T.
On a Fairley both the egine frame with cylindersw pviots as one truck and the truck under the cab and tender similarly pivots. But a Forney has a rigid enginer frame, while the truack under the cb and tender not only pivots but also has controlled side-to-side motion.

[TrainFreak409]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mudchicken

The 1398 Class 4-4-6-2 and 2-6-6-2's of Santa Fe had either hinged boilers or flexible joints midway, were called "Prairie Mallets" and were for fast passenger use on the flatlands of Kansas to Illinois.

It's a pity that flexible boilers were not successful. If they were, we could have had larger steam loco's, like the Quadraplex 2-8-8-8-8-2, and the Quintiplex 2-10-10-10-10-10-2!
No, I did not make them up, they are featured in Trains and Travel's STEAM LOCOMOTIVES magazine from 1953.

[8]TrainFreak409[8]

[mudchicken]

The 1398 Class 4-4-6-2 and 2-6-6-2's of Santa Fe had either hinged boilers or flexible joints midway, were called "Prairie Mallets" and were for fast passenger use on the flatlands of Kansas to Illinois. They were ugly, unreliable and slower than anticipated. First tried in 1909 and gone by the end of WW1, the only other mallets used on Santa Fe ....were 8 secondhand 1790 class Y-3 2-8-8-2's used on Raton Pass as helper engines from 1943-45. - Stagner in CRRM Colorado Rail Annual #23

[Modelcar]

Wow....a bunch of knowledge in above posts...and all interesting. It was also interesting hearing many of the above engines listed working hauling coal drags...as I did...! Awesome, awesome.

[tree68]

I just checked several places that gave the entire Whyte system list. None had a name listed for a 2-6-6-2.

[daveklepper]

Don't forget Challenger for the 4-6-6-4, and I heard this applied on the D&RGW and D&H, but that may have been just by fans.

[M636C]

Dave,

A "compound" is a locomotive that uses the steam in two sets of cylinders in succession. The "Mallet", developed by Anatole Mallet in France and pronounced "Mallay" had the steam going to the rear set of small cylinders and then to the larger set (because the pressure was lower) at the front, and from there to the stack. A model of the USRA 2-6+6-2 should show the difference in cylinder size, as would the USRA 2-8+8-2 and the N&W class Y6b from Rivarrossi. The Big Boy was not a compound, and the front cylinders were the same size as the back ones, the same with the Southern Pacific AC-5, AC-11 models, same size cylinders on those locos.

Peter

[Kozzie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by M636C

Dave,

As far as I know, most articulated wheel arrangements did not get individual names. There are exceptions, 4-8+8-4 "Big Boy", 2-8+8-4 "Yellowstone", 2-6+6-6 "Allegheny", but most were just known as "Mallet" (if compound) or "Simple Articulated" if not. Likewise there were no separate names for different wheel arrangements of Garratt or Fairlie types, as far as I know. Sometimes 4-6-2+2-6-4 were called "double Pacifics", but in general, no.

In China, where to the amazement of many, the Harriman standard classifications were used for steam locomotives until the 1960s, all the articulated locomotives were just known as "Mallet" which became ML (we think), so there were ML1, ML2 and so on. If there had been individual names, they would have been used in China, where the name was the base for the classification, Mikados becoming MK (or Mi Ka), Mountains becoming MT (or Ma Te) an so on.

Peter

Thanks Peter [:)][;)] hmmm...[:I][:I] you've got me with the term 'compound'...[:I][:I]....an engineering term for part of the design of an articualted steam loco? [;)][:)][:)]

Dave

[M636C]

Dave,

As far as I know, most articulated wheel arrangements did not get individual names. There are exceptions, 4-8+8-4 "Big Boy", 2-8+8-4 "Yellowstone", 2-6+6-6 "Allegheny", but most were just known as "Mallet" (if compound) or "Simple Articulated" if not. Likewise there were no separate names for different wheel arrangements of Garratt or Fairlie types, as far as I know. Sometimes 4-6-2+2-6-4 were called "double Pacifics", but in general, no.

In China, where to the amazement of many, the Harriman standard classifications were used for steam locomotives until the 1960s, all the articulated locomotives were just known as "Mallet" which became ML (we think), so there were ML1, ML2 and so on. If there had been individual names, they would have been used in China, where the name was the base for the classification, Mikados becoming MK (or Mi Ka), Mountains becoming MT (or Ma Te) and so on.

Peter

[Kozzie]

I remember reading that many wheel arrangements for steam locos ended up getting a name, like 2-8-4 being called Berkshire (after the mountain range...)

I was wondering if anyone knows if there is a name for the arangement 2-6-6-2 ? Maybe it didn't end up getting a name [?] Read a recent model review - (yes, I know a MR topic in a way, but this Forum has best crew!! [:p][:D][;)]) [;)] [:)]

Dave
(Kozzie)