Second Engine Engineer - Deadheading or Working??

[Anonymous]

I saw a local CSX train go by yesterday (6/21/04) about 30 miles west of Boston. From my vantage point I was able to see into the cab of both engines. In the first cab were two people and in the second, one person sitting where the engineer would sit. Is that person in training or are there other functions that that person is responsible for?

I have seen this also a few other times in which in a multi engine consist, a person is at the controls of one of the other engines, so I will ask the question again, but slightly differently, is that person usually along for the ride, or are they working?

Bill Warner (ww)

[Anonymous]

In operation of the engine under "revenue" service, the DOT mandates no passengers unless authorized and insured by owning entity. This applies to semi trucks. You could have a second driver for 24/7 work or a legally certified passenger such as a wife or child as long as insurance and company rules are followed.

On a train, I would imagine that the people work for the railroad. There may be a case where training was being done or a extra man was needed somewhere on the system etc. One possibility is that a friend or relation is given a quick hop from one spot to another.

Until you wrote about this, I never really gave a thought to how many people it takes to drive a train.

[Anonymous]

The person could also be a tresspasser, along for the ride.

Though it's illigal, we sometimes hear about it over here on the CP coal trains because they usually have one loco on the front and one on the rear, so it's easy to get away with getting a free ride on the rear...

My guess is the person was most likely deadheading, if the 3rd person had any business to do on the train with the crew or whatnot, they would have most likely being sitting in the pilots seat in the lead loco -- I'm pretty sure nearly all locomotives have three seats in them.

[rrnut282]

If this was a local train, the most likely answer would be a brakeman that was needed for some more complicated switching moves. Maybe he just wanted a better seat while riding to the next set-off/pick-up point.

[wabash1]

The man or woman on the 2nd unit is not running that engine he is sitting there because he wants to see what the engineer is doing on the lead unit. this is probley a brakeman or a conductor trainee

if it is a tresspasser he wouldnt be sitting in the seat. we would see him and we would only go to the crossing the cops said they be at to let him get arrested.

I have put roadformans back on the second unit so i wouldnt haft to listen to them.

[Anonymous]

My guess would be either a conductor trainee or possibly the conductor. Often conductors will ride the second unit when an engineer trainee is running and his engineer is in the cab with him. Most engineer trainee's are already promoted conductor's nowadays anyhow...

LC

[csxengineer98]

it more then likey is a rail road worker.... like someone said...it might be a brakemen..or a conductor sitting back thier.... or it might be an engineer trainee that was doing a bad job and got pulled from the seat..and sent back to the second unit becouse the crew got tired of him...lol.... but as for someone running from that unit... sometimes on a short move..where your going to be shoving back with light power...and then going to be going forward agin...its just easier for the conductor to ride the unit on the leading end of the movement...insted of haveing the engineer changing ends.... we do it all the time in some places... saves time in the long run... beats the hell out of haveing to cut all the air brakes out... walk back to the other unit..set all the air brakes back up..do a brake test....only to move a little disance... stop...cut it all back out agin..walk back to the other unit agin... cut the unit back in....and do another brake test....
csx engineer

[Randy Stahl]

Our railroad policy is to have no one ride in the rear units, too much exhaust coming in the cab. How ever I have ridden many miles in trailing units as an electrician trying to trouble shoot an annoying problem on a locomotive
Randy Stahl

[Anonymous]

That reminds me of the old F units, it was possible to have a mechanic and his tools in one of the booster units working on the engine as the train traveled.

[edblysard]

Most likely the brakeman.
Even in the wide body cabs, the third seat is kinda uncomfortable, its crammed up behind the conductors seat, no leg room, and you cant see out of it.
So you go sit in the trailing unit.

Ed

[csxengineer98]

QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard

Most likely the brakeman.
Even in the wide body cabs, the third seat is kinda uncomfortable, its crammed up behind the conductors seat, no leg room, and you cant see out of it.
So you go sit in the trailing unit.

Ed

ed....
i dont know for sure how your seats are layed out in your cabs..but the csx wide bodys have the 3rd seat in the middle..right after you come up the steps into the cab.... so thier is lots of room for 3 poeple in the cab..... i do know that some of the EMD wide cabs have the 3rd seat set up like a standered cab loco... but im thinking that they are all the Gonrail power we got from the takeover....
csx engineer

[edblysard]

CSX,
Almost all the road power we see down here is UP and BNSF.
Most of them, even the wide cabs, have the standard seating arangment, with the third seat directly behind the conductors seat, and a small fold down stool in the middle of the cabs rear wall.
Now, on our locomotives, the MK1500 have the 3rd seat in the center of the cab, much better ride.
I am guessing CSX has the 3rd seat centered also?
We use the delivering roads power to spot grain and coke trains, and the helper(brakeman) rides in the next unit back, its better than banging his knees on the back of my chair all day....

Ed

[Anonymous]

Thanks for all the replies. It is nice to hear about the different seating arrangements inside a cab as since I am strictly a railfan, it is so rare for me to ever be inside a cab, that sitting on any seat it just a touch of heaven.

Bill (ww)

[heavyd]

One more idea, when I was training most of the time the person in the second unit was the only smoker of the crew. There is no smoking in CP loco's, but the guys do it anyways. Most guys were good about not smoking around you if you weren't a smoker and they would sit in a trailing engine and smoke there instead.

[jeffhergert]

QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard

CSX,
Almost all the road power we see down here is UP and BNSF.
Most of them, even the wide cabs, have the standard seating arangment, with the third seat directly behind the conductors seat, and a small fold down stool in the middle of the cabs rear wall.
Now, on our locomotives, the MK1500 have the 3rd seat in the center of the cab, much better ride.
I am guessing CSX has the 3rd seat centered also?
We use the delivering roads power to spot grain and coke trains, and the helper(brakeman) rides in the next unit back, its better than banging his knees on the back of my chair all day....

Ed

Ed, maybe the UP just sends you the old junk.[:D]
All the newer UP GE engines have the 3rd seat in the center. The first wide bodies had the seats in the standard configuration.
The first EMD wide bodies also were standard configuration, then the newer UP AC units have the seat in the center. The UP SD70m again have them standard. Most with the seat in the center also have a little fold down seat.
Since the only time we have more than 2 people on a train is when there are students or a MOP (Road Foreman/Travelling Engineer) is doing a check ride, I prefer the standard configuration. That center seat gets in the way trying to move your grips or getting to the refrigerator/ice box especially those designed for the nose position so the door opens the wrong way.

[csxengineer98]

i do remember getting some BNSF wide body power once in a while....they have the 3 cab seats...and what i liked to call the "suiside" seat....it was just a little stoll bottom looking thing...that folded down from the back wall..right under the electrical brakers......directly behind the engineer..... must be a seat for the RFE to sit when he is doing his rides i guess..... but man..that seat was only about half as wide as a normal persons ***.... not to mention it was only about a foot or so off the floor..very uncomfortable to ride on...i sat down on one just to see what it was all about...pain in the ***..in more then one way....lol....
so any of you BNSF poeple give me some insight into why that seat is thier?
csx engineer

[Anonymous]

Your responses opened up another question for me... Occasionally a road will use leased engines in its consist but rarely on the point, but I have seen a few on the point. If you work for CSX (or UP or BNSF, etc) and the lead unit is from a different road, are the controls basically the same, or are they different for each road? Of couse I am refering to the same type on engine. (ww)

[wabash1]

all engines are built the same and all controls are the same. just the paint is differant.

[Anonymous]

One time after finishing up with a local, my crew got off in North yard in Danville. We waited over two hours for a ride from a clerk, but the yardmaster wanted the clerk assisting another crew. There was a train sitting at the north end of the yard waiting for the signal to come over the diamond, so the yardmaster just told us to hitch a ride on that trains second unit. We only had to ride about 4 miles south to the main yard and get off, so I guess you could call that deadheading.

[csxengineer98]

QUOTE: Originally posted by wabash1

all engines are built the same and all controls are the same. just the paint is differant.

thats not true...csx dash 9s have a desk top controll stand...i have been on some NS dash 9s that are wide cabs..and they have a standerd controll stands..with the computer screens mounted where the old fashion air gagues would go....
csx engineer