Question about "hotel power"

[Anonymous]

Is "hotel power" a split set of a small diesel engine mounted in the locomotive?

[daveklepper]

Some locomotives use the main traction diesel to drive a separate generator and others have a small and separate diesel driving the small ac generator or "alternator" I would say the trend today for newer power is the separate diesel.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

The first use of head-end power of which I'm aware are the FM Speed Merchants (P12-42) on NH and B&M in which hotel power was drawn from the prime mover. C&NW began use of auxiliary diesel-alternator sets replacing steam generators in 1958 with the re-equipped "Flambeau 400" and "Peninsula 400".

[daveklepper]

On this matter of firsts, I believe the Erie had some steam locomotives with generators large enough to handle not only the loco's electricals (lights, gauges) but five or six suburban Stillwell coaches behind as well. The reason was start and stop running was bad on coach batteries coach axle-driven generator couldn't keep up. \
Most other steam suburban operations were similar, possibly the iC and C&NW and RI.

In 1952 the Burlington gallery cars were already on line and got head-end power from generator cars built from old coaches.

[Anonymous]

The AMTRAK P-42's use the main gen and the EMD F-59PHI uses a 600hp Cummins gen set for hotel power

[kenneo]

Hotel Power - def: power that is used to heat and light passenger cars. Hotel Power can be delivered in several ways as indicated above. The method of generation is not relevant.

The axel generators originally used for lighting are also considered as Hotel Power as are separate generators mounted under the floors of some passsenger cars and also separate power generation cars.

[TH&B]

CPRail in Montreal used seperate diesel generators on their galery cars, pretty dirty and rather discusting for modern day. In Europe axle generators were used throughout the 70s 80s and 90s but I supose are being fazed out now. Worked very well for lighting, but didn't have a/c wich was good anyways and you could open the windows wide, not so much any more.
I always wondered how much drag axle generatores create on trains. Refer cars in Europe (ie; Inter Frigo) use axle generators. (dont keep the loads sitting to long like what often happened in the USSR so the food rotted)

[Anonymous]

In Thailand, there is a diesel engine and generator mounted under the floor of passenger car that equipped with A/C (Some cars in some trains especially "ordinary" or local train are not equipped with A/C, though they have fans and lights on them). It makes each car pretty noisy and the exhaust gas from diesel engine is everywhere when the train stops at the station. Is there any ETS (Electrical Train Supply) employed in any long haul passenger train in the US instead of using hotel power from the loco?

Karn

[daveklepper]

All commuter and long distance trains in the USA use hotel power (electric current) supplied from the locomotive, without exception, except of course mu trains where each car or many cars are their own locomotives and trailer cars getting current from an adjacent motor car. Exceptions are some tourist lines and some private cars and heritage operations over railroads, where some passenger cars have their own underfloor (usually) diesel generators, or may sitll be using steam heat and under-coach axle generators. In Canada I know the upgraded Budd equipment is similar to Amtrak, and I assume the new Renaissance equipment is also, but I don't know about regionals and commuter operations there.

[Anonymous]

During Pittsburgh's brief foray into modern commuter rail, the equipment used had generator sets mounted on the cab cars that powered the sets. This equipment later went to CDOT (Connecticut) where it continued to operate that way.

[johncolley]

Back in my railroading daysin Oakland, CA, late '50's & early '60's, the underfloor gensets on SP/UP passenger equipment were all propane fueled. When did they change to diesels?

[BR60103]

In the F40s the hotel power was on the main diesel engine. These had to be kept running at high revs even when the train was stopped. GO Transit workers referred to them as "thunder wagons".

[Anonymous]

The rebuilding of passenger services after WW2 here in Australia saw the introduction of separate power cars containing generators on longer distance trains to provide "hotel power" to the trains then being air conditioned.
They suevived thru to the 1990s when many loco hauled passenger trains left town for the last time.
However Queensland still has faith in loco hauled passenger trains and has recently introduced several new power cars to serve inland trains out of Brisbane.

[espeefoamer]

Hotel Power is nothing new.Milwaukee Road had a train in 1895 that had a steam generator in the baggage car to run the lights in the passanger cars.

[M636C]

The first "standard" trains with head end power were the 1937 City of Los Angeles and City of San Francisco. Diesel generator sets (with Winton engines) were carried in the leading car. The E units had steam generators for use on other trains.

In Australia, some air conditioned trains were built in 1949 with twin GM 75kw generator sets in the end car (still with some seats)of a seven car train (four trains, in fact). Until 1960, they were generally steam hauled, so power from the locomtive wasn't an option. This has been used since, but not using cars with seats.

Peter

[Anonymous]

Dear Sir,


There was a Photo in Trains or Railroad Magazine years back of a Rear Shot of a Long Island???Suburban Service Steam Locomotive with a Large Steam Dynamo on the Tender behind the Coal Bunker which was for Lighting the Coaches thru Jumper Cables.


This Dynamo appeared to have a Muffler to cut down the Turbine Scream when Operating.


The Locomotive Lights would be Handled by a separate Dynamo atop the Boiler as in Standard Locomotive Practice of the Era.


Would be Interesting to find out what Powered the Suburban Coach Lights when Steam Replaced by Diesels on these Jobs.


Separate Diesel Set or Main Locomotive Diesel?

[Anonymous]

The Amtrak F40's the hotel power was run from the main engine to a separate generator either 500kw ot 800kw (201 to 229 was 500 the rest was 800kw) at 480volts 60 hz 3 phase for heating air conditioning and lighting. the main traction engine a 645 series ran at 893 rpm all the time that HEP was used and 750 rpm in standby (you couldn't use traction power in standby mode.) The biggest problem I had with the F40's was fuel filters , the second biggest problem was the Train Line Complete loose or missing jumpers. Lots of times Chicago would short loop the train and that is when all hell happened at times.If the fuel got plugged up RPM went down especially when throttling up then the electrical equipment would shut off the hep. So on and off it did. Try this when you leave Chicago headding for Seattle Once I got spin ons (filters) at Milwaukee then Minneapolis even picked up primary filters at Fargo wow I have ridden the cab most all the way baby sitting the F40 when it was in trouble. If one failed you couldn't get another one except at each end of the run. You couldn't use a freight locomotive as they had no hep equipment so if you had 2 F40 you could use the other one. What if you left Chicago with only 1 hep unit working and the other one had parts missing.due to a shortage of power which we were many times a year. A few times we has 20 or more F40's shopped....One trip on the sunset route I had only one hep working and the other one had a relay burned out. So the good hep unit failed (generator bearing) so here I was in the desert with no hep and the temperature at 110 degrees and a train full of passengers. The SP was the worst railroad for Amtrak to give us a helping hand they wouldn't do anything for us, just give us a locomotive for full price and we had to return it to where we got it. I told the engineer to go and I stripped to my underwear and went to work removing (in the engine room) a good relay and put it in the place of the burned out one in the lead unit the temp in the F40 was at 145 degrees (fireman had a thermometer) so I worked for 10 min then went to the rear of the unit outside to cool off at 79 mph then went to work again until I changed out the relay and got the hep on again I spoke to the Conductor and he said the temp in the cars was getting bad but now the temp was dropping and everybody was happy we lost a little time and did not put a freight loco on and arrived in LA just about on time.I could go on and on about some trips I had while at Amtrak.
Mike Wikman
Sr insrructor of locomotive engineer training at that time for Amtrak now semi retired