What are...

[Willy2]

What are coal cars made of? I'm guessing that the new shiny ones may be some kind of tough aluminum or metal? The old black ones seem to have a slightly different shape so were they made of something different?

Willy

[edblysard]

Willy,
Today, most are aluminum, remember, weight equals lost revenue...
Older ones may be steel, although they have been using aluminum for quite some time, and they did paint quite a few aluminum cars, before they decided it was cheaper to leave them un-painted.

Most of the older smooth sided cars are steel, the aluminum ones have ribs or raised panels for strength.

Ed

[Modelcar]

....At least some of the smooth sided coal haulers are aluminum and I believe they have steel ends...and many have been manufactured in Johnstown, Pa. Lots of rail cars have come from the car shops there and pretty sure some still do. My "old" stomping grounds...near my home area. Massive steel mills were in that location...Bethlehem and US Steel....about 15 or so miles of it lined up along the river. The car shops were part of that complex. The steel making facilities that are in use is a mere fraction of what they once were...Roughly 25,000 employees at peak and not sure what it is now but maybe 10% of that and Bethlehem is not part of it anymore. Seems it has been decided the steel must come from imports. What a shame.....

[csxengineer98]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Modelcar

....At least some of the smooth sided coal haulers are aluminum and I believe they have steel ends...and many have been manufactured in Johnstown, Pa. Lots of rail cars have come from the car shops there and pretty sure some still do. My "old" stomping grounds...near my home area. Massive steel mills were in that location...Bethlehem and US Steel....about 15 or so miles of it lined up along the river. The car shops were part of that complex. The steel making facilities that are in use is a mere fraction of what they once were...Roughly 25,000 employees at peak and not sure what it is now but maybe 10% of that and Bethlehem is not part of it anymore. Seems it has been decided the steel must come from imports. What a shame.....

i thought the mill in J-town was closed all together now...and they arent making any more rail cars?... i havent seen any new cars come off the old S&C sub in a long time now...
csx engineer

[Modelcar]

....Yes, that's the route they traveled to market on and I really don't know for sure if it has completely stopped now. I haven't heard of the complete shutdown and I've seen activity in the area within the past few years...I was in the area just 2 weeks ago, but just didn't get to that location to check it out. Will make an effort to check the current status. As for Bethlehem steel plant workings that was taken over by others some time in the past and understand a bit of operation is still ongoing there. Don't think US Steel has any operation there now. Most of the hulking facilities are still strung out along the river valley....Scenes repeated elseware in America and I don't like the trend that is dragging our country's high paying jobs elseware...
I will try to seek out the answer to see if any cars are currently being produced in the "Car Shops" of that complex. I hope I can report, yes there are, but we'll have to see.
By the way, CSX engineer, if you have run on the S&C...you may know the area I speak of when I say of us kids swimming at 218 bridge a few years ago....

[Modelcar]

...Update: Just did a bit of checking and as of March 2004, Johnstown America Corporation [JAC] had orders for about 270 rail cars including aluminum hoppers for build and delivery this Spring....So based on that report, it appears the complex is still in business.

[CShaveRR]

I believe Johnstown America still uses its Johnstown plant for some typs of cars, but most, if not all, of the coal cars are built at its facility in Danville, Illinois.

The builder's decal on JAC cars shows the plant of manufacture.

What else do they build? Most recently, a lot of flat cars for TTX.

Both steel and aluminum cars have outside ribs more often than not, because that's a better way to hold the car together (loads tend to make the sides bulge outward; ribs hold it in). Some companies, Johnstown America included, are making smooth-sided cars, since this increases loading capacity (by about the thickness of the ribs!) and improves aerodynamics of the train (the trade name for Johnstown America's cars is Aero-Flo, in fact). I haven't heard of any structural-integrity problems on these cars...yet!

The transition from steel to aluminum in coal service was made fairly quickly, with steel cars built as recently as the mid-1980s being rendered surplus. With the weight savings on aluminum, and the increase in gross rail load from 263K to 286K, the new cars are considerably larger (4400-4500 cubic feet, as opposed to 4000 for a typical steel car and around 4200 for the most modern designs). So steel coal gons have been dumped (pun unintentional) on the surplus market, and either used "as is" for loads such as crossties and scrap metal, or modified in various ways, such as conversion to high-speed ballast cars for Herzog, coil steel cars (sides cut down and covers added). The latest thing I've seen is a series of aggregate gons...old steel coal cars shortened by 11 feet in length and two feet in height. Watch for 'em, Ed, they might get down your way...they're in the CMO (!) 396000 series.

[Willy2]

Thanks! My dad told me they were aluminum but I thought I would have it verified with the experts.

Willy

[Hugh Jampton]

We tried aluminiumum freight cars in the past, but aluminiumum doesn't have good fatige performance, so they were scrapped.

[Anonymous]

You can always tell when the coal hoppers are aluminum because they usually say something to the effect of "aluminum do not heat" or something to that effect on the bottom/side of the car.

[athelney]

QUOTE: Originally posted by macguy

You can always tell when the coal hoppers are aluminum because they usually say something to the effect of "aluminum do not heat" or something to that effect on the bottom/side of the car.

Think it says " use radiant heat only " -- noticed some on CP coal train yesterday afternoon in Matsqui

[locomutt]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CShaveRR

I believe Johnstown America still uses its Johnstown plant for some typs of cars, but most, if not all, of the coal cars are built at its facility in Danville, Illinois.

The builder's decal on JAC cars shows the plant of manufacture.

What else do they build? Most recently, a lot of flat cars for TTX.

Both steel and aluminum cars have outside ribs more often than not, because that's a better way to hold the car together (loads tend to make the sides bulge outward; ribs hold it in). Some companies, Johnstown America included, are making smooth-sided cars, since this increases loading capacity (by about the thickness of the ribs!) and improves aerodynamics of the train (the trade name for Johnstown America's cars is Aero-Flo, in fact). I haven't heard of any structural-integrity problems on these cars...yet!

The transition from steel to aluminum in coal service was made fairly quickly, with steel cars built as recently as the mid-1980s being rendered surplus. With the weight savings on aluminum, and the increase in gross rail load from 263K to 286K, the new cars are considerably larger (4400-4500 cubic feet, as opposed to 4000 for a typical steel car and around 4200 for the most modern designs). So steel coal gons have been dumped (pun unintentional) on the surplus market, and either used "as is" for loads such as crossties and scrap metal, or modified in various ways, such as conversion to high-speed ballast cars for Herzog, coil steel cars (sides cut down and covers added). The latest thing I've seen is a series of aggregate gons...old steel coal cars shortened by 11 feet in length and two feet in height. Watch for 'em, Ed, they might get down your way...they're in the CMO (!) 396000 series.

I believe C&O built some back in the late 40'sor early 50's.
CS help me out on this one please.

[Modelcar]

....Car building in Johnstown: From JAC web site..."One of the features of the Franiklin Plant..[Johnstown], as well as the Shell Plant...is manufacturing flexibility. Frieght cars designed and built by JAC can be assembled at either plant.
The Franklin Plant, having approximately 800,000 square feet of manufacturing space, houses a full service, well equipped fabrication shop. It is the fabrication center for both plants. Recent renovations include a new paint and shot blast facility for underframes".

[CShaveRR]

You're right, Walter; C&O had five aluminum hopper cars and a few aluminum box cars around 1950. They were apparently "neutral", since they weren't scrapped in any hurry, but neither did C&O repeat the experiment.