Morrison Knudsen

[M636C]

Guys,

I think that MK's "failure" was largely in the non-railroad area, although there was a problem with the construction of the Amtrak "California Cars" although whether this was a cause or a result of the problems I can't recall.

I think we should address the Caterpillar engines in a bit more detail. Two current Caterpillar engines have been used in locomotives - the 3500 series and the 3600 series. The engines in Ed's switchers are the 3512 in the MK1500D (GP15D) and the 3516 in the MK2000D (GP20D). This is an engine with a 170mm cylinder bore. To compare it with the EMD engines, both the 645 and 710 engines have 230mm cylinder bore, the GE a little less than that. These engines can be regarded as successful in locomotive use.

The big Caterpillar engine, the 3600, is the engine that has not yet been a real success in locomotives so far. It has been these engines that were used as replacement engines in SD45s on the Santa Fe, and were used in the six MK5000 prototypes, which are being rebuilt with EMD 16-645F3B engines according to my last information.

The 3600 is a big engine with a cylinder bore of 270mm. For comparison, the EMD H engine has a cylinder bore of 265mm, and the GE HDL (and GEVO, I think) has a cylinder bore of 250mm.

So the 3500 is bigger than the two "6000 HP" engines recently used by EMD and GE, but it may not be less successful in real terms, since no more of these designs are being built. The "GEVO" is a modified version, but it is too early to say that it is a success. The 3500 has been quite successful in marine use, and 18 cylinder versions developing more than 10 000HP are in daily use in fast catamaran ferries, including vessels on lease to the US Navy.

It is interesting that there is a gap in the current Caterpillar range from 170mm to 270mm. If Cat were to purchase EMD, they would have a readymade switcher engine, but might retain the 645 and 710 to fill the gap to the 3600 series. It would be interesting to see which of the 3600 or the 265H would be retained for locomotive use if the EMD purchase did go ahead!

Peter

[Train Guy 3]

Didn't MK build 6 units for SP. There was an article about the locomtives in Popular Mechanics in 95 I think and it mentioned MK were building locos for SP.

[Anonymous]

MK did indeed do a lot of rebuilding including many six axle units rebuilt for the Espee at Mountaintop. PA near Wilkes Barre.

LC

[Anonymous]

Thats it, I declare it,

Ed knows everything! there isn't somehting he doesn't know.

declared/

[locomutt]

Thank you Ed!

[edblysard]

Walt,
Send me an e-mail address to
[e-mail]
or
renaissancewritinginstruments.com(may not be up and running, yet)
and I will send you some photos of the MK1500Ds I used every day.

Ed

[Allen Jenkins]

A Cat not making it? Astounding! Lets here more.acj.

[edblysard]

Not trying to "set you straight" Walt, just chipping in my 2 cents...but I think what you may be referring to is the fact that the Cat engines dont load, or rev up, as quick as the EMDs and GEs, and railroaders dont like them too much.

Add that to the fact that most of the backshops and diesel shops dont have a lot of Cat replacement parts on hand, and they just never caught on....

We got a package deal on ours, along with the now defunct HB&T, we purchased the entire run of the MK1500Ds when introduced, along with the service warrantee and service personel.

But so far, the've been pretty tough motors, good enough for UP to lease a bunch of them.

If I remember correctly, MPI is now a part of WABCO?, who is a part of EMD?

If you do a web serch, you will find the MK1500 and MK2000 listed as both MPI and MK products, every once in a while as Bosie Locomotive, and now as the new EMD GP15 and 20 switchers....
Our builders plates list them as MK1500Ds.

Ed

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the info fellas. Didn't MK do rebuilds on just about every engine out their before they went away?

Larry

[locomutt]

Thanks Ed, for setting me straight on that,I guess had some misinformation.

[edblysard]

Walt,
PTRA has had a fleet of MK1500Ds in service, units # 9601 thru 9624, since 1996, all cat powered.
Units 9625 thru 9634, ex HBT MK1500Ds, now belong to BNSF.
With the exception of one involved in a head one collision, and one with a piece of 14"dia steel pipe driven through the cab and alternator, all see daily service.

We switch and work road jobs with them, and have not had a major engine failure in any one of them.

The "New GP 15 and GP20" are in fact, MK1500D and MK2000Ds, 1500 and 2000 hp respectivly, with the GP20 having dynamic brakes.

UP has a lease fleet of these, leased from CEFX, in service as road units and transfer units here in Houston.

24 locomotives, running almost 24/7 in a switching terminal railroad, for almost 7 years straight, with no major engine problems....
Not to shabby.

Ed[:D]

[locomutt]

I am not disputing any part of anything here.
But was it not proven that CAT engines couldn't stand
to the requirements of railroads[?]

[Anonymous]

MK broke up, and the locomotive sector did get taken over by motive power industries. MPI is making new switchers out of old Geeps using CAT engines I believe. They have alot, I was just there a few months ago, and they used to have more than 20 of the blue switchers out in the yard. They are also making commuter engines for Metra(I think it's metra) which are prooving to be sucessfull to the best extent of my knowlege. MK just kind of fell apart when they failed to win a contact from any of the major rail lines to produce their prototype engine(I forget the name, and the problem they had with it, but I've got pictures somewhere).

[mudchicken]

Which part?

Locomotives = Motive Power Industries
Engineering & Heavy Construction = Washington Group, Inc.
Other parts are now Raytheon

[Anonymous]

Does anyone have the straight story on what happened to Morrison Knudsen?