Norm48327 Nick, I think I know what you mean, but please explain field/divergent side.
Nick,
I think I know what you mean, but please explain field/divergent side.
Field side - the side of a track away from other tracks, as along the length of a ladder track where there is a diverging fan of rails on one side and a cornfield on the other.
Divergent side - the side with the curved stock rail.
Note that the two are frequently contradictory, since the field side of a ladder track is usually straight.
Chuck
Norm
Whenever possible, we place hand throws to the "field" side of the turnout. This keeps the ground guys in the clear as much as possible. Our rules require you to stand at least 10 feet from the switch stand in the yard, and 25 feet on main track.
Our power switch machines tend to be placed on the divergent side.
Nick
Take a Ride on the Reading with the: Reading Company Technical & Historical Society http://www.readingrailroad.org/
PDN well almost, was very tired when i posted last night, this morning or what ever it was, I was assuming that was ment by the switches as main line and as i sat thinking of the answer by mud chicken everything he said was true according to the segment i run on. and the reason he cited ( might not be right but is logical so until other wise proven wrong ill say he is correct) then i was refering to the rule that you did cite. now ive seen guys question themselves just like you stated and rethrow a switch. but what i was refering to and the main reason the NS says they want you away from the switch is most conductors get in a hurry and see the end of a train and with out thinking go to switch unlock it then while their mind is wondering will throw that switch while the other train is still passing it.
Now that may seam like a stupid thing to do and it is but remeber this even in railroading you go thru motions or reputitions, and if you start getting ahead of your self then you will not think of task at hand you lean over unlock switch then think about the camping trip the weather and time relaxing, man a nice mess of fresh fish to fry and hush puppies to eat i hope the wife makes that great slaw she makes and a pitcher of sweet tea, man it going to be great, back to reality lock in hand throw switch its time to go. Now if a set of wheels was going by at that time you would have stopped but it was the middle of a 90 footer, you throw the switch and then relize what you did but its to late. Yes it happens and there is at least that many close calls also( meaning you went to do it but caught yourself ) The truth is as mud chicken said these are written in blood and the railroad has you for at least 12 hrs dont hurry take your time because if you screw up it will be longer than 12 hrs before you get to the lake,
mud chicken thank you for the reply and Paul you have a great day also.
wabash1 I am glad that you answer the question, I did not know that the reason for the switch is mainly due to the trainman operating the switch to stay away from a live track, very interesting, Now i have a question, in the NS rules and it may be in norac i dont know but this great idea was to keep guys from crossing a live rail to operate the switch then once thrown to cross back over this live rail as not to operate the switch while a train is going over it, this seems to me to cancel 1 perfect idea to make a differant idea work, then again the railroad does not use common sense.
Once again, this demonstrates what happens when we '***-u-me' something, and/ or don't adequately communicate the context of what we're thinking, speaking, or posting about, as follows:
I - and I believe most of the others - understood and assumed the question to be in the context of yards, industry spurs, and other low-speed switching-type tracks.
What I believe wabash1 is referring to is a rule* - typically only for turnouts/ switches on a main track - which requires the trainman, while waiting for the superior train to pass, to cross to the opposite side of the track away from the switchstand, if practical and safe to do so, after the switch has been thrown/ lined for the main track again. The usually-accepted rationale for that rule is that in the event of a mistaken thought or belief or fear that the switch has been thrown or left in the wrong position for the main line train, the rule would prevent the trainman from acting on a psychological impulse and suddenly throwing the switch in front of the mainline train to what is thought to be the correct position - but which in fact is the wrong position, leading to a wreck. There have been a couple notable cases of this kind of thing happening, once to an ATSF passenger train that was the subject of an article in Trains within the last 10 years or so, and one many years ago that wrecked either the Broadway Limited on the PRR or the 20th Centruy Limited on the NYC, etc.
In conclusion, these are 2 separate 'rules' and standards, applicable to different situations. And regardless of which side the main line switchstand is on, the rule cited by wabash1 would require the trainman to cross the 'live' track several more times. But that track is usually isolated and not occupied by a train when that is happening, unlike a yard track where a train or switching move going over a switch could be occurring as often as a couple times a minute.
- Paul North.
*EDIT: From Norfolk Southern Corporation's Operating Rules, Effective May 1, 2008, pages 52 - 53, at - http://blet73.org/Operating%20Rules.pdf
HAND-OPERATED SWITCHES AND DERAILS
104. Responsibilities; Hand-Operated Switches and Derails
(b) Lining Main Track Switch — Employee Position
2. Employees must keep away from facing-point switcheswhile trains or engines are approaching or passing. Whenpracticable and safe, they must station themselves on theopposite side of the track from the switch stand. [emphasis added - PDN.]
(1) For every rule there will be the inevitable exception.
(2) Too many rules are written in blood.
(3) For too many people these days, common sense is an option or non-extant.
(4) The further east you go in the US, the older the railroads are and the more cramped, hemmed-in & clearance restrictive the railroads become. (Wabbo - How does it feel to be on the "new" part of your railroad?)
mudchicken NO Switch stand can be placed on either side. The determining factor is it's line of sight location and where it can be placed to avoid having trainmen cross over active track to operate it. On a hand thrown switch, the switch stand, the switch rod, the headblock ties, the No.1 rod, and the related OTM are universal. With a power switch, the concept is the same, but the materials must be ordered for LH or RH application ahead of time because of how the switch machine is mounted. Usually the stand winds up on the inside of a curve unless you are are on a switching lead where you have both cases, as long as the switchstand is closest to the switchman's toepath along the lead. (You sometimes se some really wild switch arrangements with unusually long switch rods reaching under an unrelated switch or track to keep switchment from fouling the adjoining track - consequently these are usually "hard-to-throw" maintenance headaches)
NO
Switch stand can be placed on either side. The determining factor is it's line of sight location and where it can be placed to avoid having trainmen cross over active track to operate it.
On a hand thrown switch, the switch stand, the switch rod, the headblock ties, the No.1 rod, and the related OTM are universal. With a power switch, the concept is the same, but the materials must be ordered for LH or RH application ahead of time because of how the switch machine is mounted.
Usually the stand winds up on the inside of a curve unless you are are on a switching lead where you have both cases, as long as the switchstand is closest to the switchman's toepath along the lead. (You sometimes se some really wild switch arrangements with unusually long switch rods reaching under an unrelated switch or track to keep switchment from fouling the adjoining track - consequently these are usually "hard-to-throw" maintenance headaches)
I am glad that you answer the question, I did not know that the reason for the switch is mainly due to the trainman operating the switch to stay away from a live track, very interesting, Now i have a question, in the NS rules and it may be in norac i dont know but this great idea was to keep guys from crossing a live rail to operate the switch then once thrown to cross back over this live rail as not to operate the switch while a train is going over it, this seems to me to cancel 1 perfect idea to make a differant idea work, then again the railroad does not use common sense.
Thank you for the complete and prompt response.
(1) No.
(2) Yes, from a 'mechanical' standpoint of the operating rods, etc. - they really don't care, and are usually interchangeable/ symmetrical.
(3) No.
What usually governs are the local conditions. All other things being equal, the switchstand is preferred to be on what is usually the engineer's side so that the conductor/ switchman can be seen without them having to cross a 'live' track. But when such things are not 'equal' - such as a congested area with multiple tracks close together such as a 'compound ladder, or switchers that often may have the engineer on either side, etc. - the switchstand will usually be put on the 'field' side or 'outside' of the ladder, or towards the outside of any curves approaching the switch, or otherwise where there's the widest space for a person to stand and throw it without 'fouling' an adjoining track*, and so on. There are often 'standard plans' for such details where the switch is isolated or enough room to comply, but that is often overruled by the prevailing local conditions.
*Often - but not always - if there's room for the diverging track, then that's the side with the most room for the switchstand, and so that's why they usually wind up on that side.
P.S. - Jeez, don't everyone respond at all once - 2:16, 2:17 and 2:18 PM, per the 'tags' on my view of this thread. - PDN.
The long ends of the headblock ties, on which the switchstand is mounted, can project in either direction. Which way they project is determined by local conditions - clearance, visibility and switchtender safety (not necessarily in that order) being the most important.
Unlike modelers and locating (civil) engineers, the people who run trains really don't much care which way the turnout diverges. Their major concern is what speed they can safely maintain while passing over it.
Turnouts shipped preassembled (and model train turnouts packaged in blister packs) have the headblock ties projecting on the diverging (curved) side for convenience in handling (and packaging.) They can be removed and reversed if necessary. Over on the Model Railroader forum somebody posted a photo of a manually-operated yard lead where a half-dozen successive turnouts had their headblocks projecting on the straight side - a result of clearance issues, plus keeping the switchtender from having to cross any rails to reach the next switchstand.
Does the switch stand for a left or right hand turnout always have to be constructed with the switch stand on the left for a left hand turnout, and right for a right hand turnout? Or, can the switch stand be located on either side? Is the switch stand location an indication of a left or right turnout ahead?
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