While this thread hasn't morphed into a pure hobo thread yet, it is definately heading in that direction. In the past, these type discussions have caused a lot of grief for the moderators and the forum members. Because of this, we have a forum policy: No discussions about hobos or the hobo lifestyle. It’s trespassing and sets a poor example for the youth that visit this forum. Plus, like graffiti discussions, it usually leads to arguments.For that reason, I'm locking this thread now.-Norris user/moderator
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Sawtooth500So what happened post 1910 that it began to no longer be accepted? And from that American Experience show, it seemed to me in the 1930's when people got caught they wouldn't be charged with a crime - they'd just be shaken down for money and have their money taken, that seemed to be the motivation of the railroad police, at least according to the show.
In the post-1910 era, hobo life became less necessary because of the general decline of agriculture. However, there was a resurgence of hobos during the great depression because the hopelessness of finding work led to the illusion that surely something promising waited beyond the horizon. As I mentioned, in the pre-1910 era, trainmen routinely collected “bo money” as an informal fare for the ride. And the trainmen were very aggressive in trying to prevent riding by hobos who could not pay or refused to do so.
This collection of money from hobos surely had ended by the 1950s, but I am not sure how common it was during the great depression. I would not necessarily expect The American Experience to depict this issue of shaking down hobos for money in unbiased and accurate manner.
I would speculate that the actual prosecution of hobos over the entire history of the practice was a very small percentage of the total number who rode trains illegally. I would further speculate that there has been more prosecution during the last ten years than during all of preceding history. Perhaps the era of the least concern about hobo trespass was from the 1950s up to the 1980s.
In the pre-1910 era, there were generally two classes of hobos. One class were the migrant workers who were generally harmless and of good intent. The other class, known as yeggs, were parasites that preyed upon the migrant worker hobos, and generally committed crimes as they moved from place to place.
Sawtooth500Semper - why all the anger towards someone riding on a train? Sure, it's not a smart idea for obvious safety reasons, but if someone is down on their luck with no money and no resources a train ride sure as hell beats walking, and it's not like they harm the railroad in any way they just put themselves in danger. I just see no reason to make those peoples' lives more difficult than they already are.
Why? Hmmmm... "anger"?
Well... I suppose that if you find it objectionable to report trespass, then may I suggest that you inform your neighbors that if they happen to see someone in YOUR house obviously without YOUR permission that they do NOT call the police...
I mean, maybe that poor hapless soul is just down on their luck and needs to sit in your living room for a few days? I am sure they will only urinate and defacate in a discreete corners of the most convienent corner of the room, They won't vomit all over any packages you are storing to deliver to some merchant. They won't kick holes in crates or break into storage containers just to see if there is something inside that they might either want or want to damage for the fun of it.
If you are going to the store, do you object to finding someone in the backseat? Do you mind if someone jumps onto your trunk lid at a stop light? I hope not! They just might be some "down-on-their-luck" hobo in need of tranportation to the next town to seek employment.
As for the nimcompoop that came up to my car, if you had experienced his "attitude" you might have reacted differently, but I don't want a cocky, self-centered, dork, punk, that thinks he deserves 'charity' just because he is a consumer of the air he is poluting, curled up on my doorstep at night. But, I hereby apologize to the fine residents of Fairfax for sending him that way... I figured it was just far enough away that he might get discouraged and not go all the way there.
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
Hopping freights has always been illegal, but during the pre-1910 era, it was accepted practice on many roads if the hobos paid for the ride. The trainmen collected a cash fare per division, and kept the money to supplement their pay. Most of the riders were migrant workers moving from one harvest rush to the next.
Apparently, railroad management looked the other way, and viewed it as a side-benefit to their conductors and brakemen that perhaps reduced pressure to raise their direct wages. Surely management knew about the practice in this era when so many people stood atop boxcars that you could not fit one more into the group.
.....Of course people {desperate}, rode the rails {and rods}, in the dark days of the 30's....People were doing anything to stay alive.
Doubt if there is even a fraction of that many "riders" currently....Of course, we'll always see some. And of course it's dangerous. And RR's certainly might be sued if one of these "passengers" got injuried, illegally or legally on the property.
I tuned in to watch the 30's RR riding last night, but found out soon it was more of the "hopo action" back then.....not about the legit passenger train riders and perhaps some fast steamers. So didn't watch it very long.
Quentin
ButchKnouse If this bozo had gotten hurt, he certainly would have sued the railroad. THAT'S the harm.
If this bozo had gotten hurt, he certainly would have sued the railroad.
THAT'S the harm.
...and twelve people who aren't smart enough to get out of jury duty would give him a huge award.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
Sawtooth500ButchKnouse If this bozo had gotten hurt, he certainly would have sued the railroad. THAT'S the harm.How can someone sue the railroad if they got hurt if they were on railroad property illegally? That's like a burglar suing a homeowner because he broke his leg during a burglary...
ButchKnouseIf this bozo had gotten hurt, he certainly would have sued the railroad. THAT'S the harm.
The question is do some still ride the rails today and the answer is, "yes but..."....much fewer do if only because it is more difficult to find a place to ride safely and be hidden from view and because there are fewer trains over all; with Homeland Security, etc, there are more patrols around yards and junctions where one would be able to hop aboard. But, yes, if you are around railroad yards and other places where freight trains are known to linger, you'll probably see a few around, just not as many as even back in the 70's and 80's.
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From where I usually railfan, I have a couple of times seen a non-paying passenger. I called the RR to report them, noting which way the train was headed and about where the fool was in the consist (car type, count from the end, etc.)
I have also been approached by a young idiot bragging that he 'just got off that freight, the crew didn't mind if I rode in the second engine." only to have the engineer yell out as the train left the yard, "Next time I'll throw you off without stopping!" The fellow then looked around at the RR office building and the General Mills plant next door and asked "Is this Cedar Rapids?" I said it was. He then asked where the main part of town was. I sent him the wrong way - toward Fairfax.
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