Dutch door?

[Kozzie]

I thoroughly enjoyed Byron Webster's article "My Summer in Rocky's Kitchen" in Summer 04 edition of Classic Trains. [:)] (we get it mauch later down here[:(])
He mentioned that while working on the Western Star and Empire Builder, he would snatch views of the sceneery from a Dutch door...is that a special door for crew only?? [?]

Dave
(Kozzie)

[edblysard]

David,
A Dutch door is a door cut in half crossways, just about waist level, the bottom half most often has a serving shelf top, and the top half is swung out of the way, to allow waiters or service people to use it as a work surface.

The term "Dutch" often means cut in, or fitted snugley.
Woodworkers use a Dutch plug to replace a damaged section or knothole in wood surfaces, railroads used "dutch joints" to replace a few feet of damaged rail, instead of the entire section, they "cut in" a few feet of track, replacing only the damaged part.

A dutch door can still serve the purpose of a door, to keep people from moving through a passageway, but leaving the top open allows those on the inside to see out.

Ed

[Kozzie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard

David,
A Dutch door is a door cut in half crossways, just about waist level, the bottom half most often has a serving shelf top, and the top half is swung out of the way, to allow waiters or service people to use it as a work surface.

The term "Dutch" often means cut in, or fitted snugley.
Woodworkers use a Dutch plug to replace a damaged section or knothole in wood surfaces, railroads used "dutch joints" to replace a few feet of damaged rail, instead of the entire section, they "cut in" a few feet of track, replacing only the damaged part.

A dutch door can still serve the purpose of a door, to keep people from moving through a passageway, but leaving the top open allows those on the inside to see out.

Ed

Thanks Ed [:)] [;)] Reminds me of stable doors that lets horses see out, be keeps them in.

[Anonymous]

Most "classic" streamlined cars used dutch doors at the vestibules (between the vestibule and the outdoors), and most diners had a dutch door for the door between the kitchen and the outside. The idea is that the conductor or brakeman can open the top half and lean out to observe conditions on approach to a station, and still maintain a large measure of safety.

[Kozzie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mark W. Hemphill

Most "classic" streamlined cars used dutch doors at the vestibules (between the vestibule and the outdoors), and most diners had a dutch door for the door between the kitchen and the outside. The idea is that the conductor or brakeman can open the top half and lean out to observe conditions on approach to a station, and still maintain a large measure of safety.

Thanks Mark. [:)] I suppose those doors disappeared from the later Amtrak coaches...?

Dave

[M636C]

Dave,

The cars on the Melbourne- Adelaide "Overland" had "Dutch Doors", and probably the original cars still on that train still do!

I can't recall any cars built for Amtrak that had this arrangement.

Peter

[UPTRAIN]

Thanks Ed.

[jeaton]

Not exactly a dutch door, but the Amtrak Superliners have a "door in the door" about window size and height. But Mark H. is wrong. The actual purpose of the doors are for smokers sneaking a quick puff on a no smoking train or for taking photos when the train windows are dirty.

Jay

[Kozzie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by M636C

Dave,

The cars on the Melbourne- Adelaide "Overland" had "Dutch Doors", and probably the original cars still on that train still do!

I can't recall any cars built for Amtrak that had this arrangement.

Peter

Peter, were the "Overland" coaches basd on the streamlined cars that Mark was referring to?

[Anonymous]

Very funny, Jay. I thought it was so I could enjoy the sound of jointed rail at 60 mph on a beautiful fall morning in the scablands of Eastern Washington, between Spokane and Hinkle on the UP.

[jeaton]

Oh yeah, that's right and then there is also the sounds of the engine horns, too.

[mvlandsw]

And the mist of water when somebody flushes at 60 mph.

[M636C]

Dave

The "Overland" was based on the Pullman-Standard cars built for the Rock Island (and SP) "Golden Rocket" in 1947, even to the Maroon and Silver colour scheme, not previously used in Victoria or South Australia. The cars were shorter than the US cars (75'), and originally had aluminium fluting rather than stainless steel, although the later cars had stainless steel fluting and the earlier cars were retrofitted with it. The structure was in carbon steel, either copied from or under licence to Pullman Standard. The canvas covered full width diaphrams, later replaced by ACF pattern aluminium sheathed diaphragms were also to Pullman design. Cars of this design now operate on the ""Ghan" and "Indian Pacific" as well as on the "Overland". All the sitting cars on these trains are to this design.

Peter

[Mookie]

Speaking of dutch doors - I have a lot of traffic in and out of my office every day. Driver said I should install a dutch door - then close the top half.

Guaranteed to cut down on traffic!

Mook

[tree68]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

Speaking of dutch doors - I have a lot of traffic in and out of my office every day. Driver said I should install a dutch door - then close the top half.

Guaranteed to cut down on traffic!

Mook

Just let in the Dwarf Signals!

[Mookie]

Darn things are still missing, too!

[Modelcar]

...My strongest memory of the open dutch doors on a passenger train entering a station platform would be the top half open and the crusty old conductor hanging out taking stock of the train's movement as it enters and prepairs to stop at the platform. And then as it really does stop the noise of him banging the bottom half open and the plates or steps assy. being put down in readyness for passengers exiting.

[Modelcar]

....In further thought...Wasn't it just a plate that was hinged and fastened along the car body and when that was lifted it exposed the steps already in place.

[dknelson]

For whatever reasons it seems Canadian railroaders are (or were in the 1980s) more liberal about allowing passengers to open Dutch doors and enjoy the fresh air and scenery. On the Algoma Canyon tourist train, on the old BC rail tourist train out of North Vancouver (pulled at the time by the Royal Hudson -- what a sound!) and on VIA's Canadian between Vancouver and Banff (spelling) when they used the CP rather than the CN main, I went to the end of the car, opened the dutch door and took pictures. Others joined me. The conductors and crew would walk through, smile, tell us to be careful and keep our heads inside the train, and otherwise we were not told to stop. Now I wish I'd taken more photos!
Dave Nelson

[jeaton]

Now there we go. Top of dutch doors open, gate across the end door. Poor man's open end platform car.

[cherokee woman]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tree68

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

Speaking of dutch doors - I have a lot of traffic in and out of my office every day. Driver said I should install a dutch door - then close the top half.

Guaranteed to cut down on traffic!

Mook

Just let in the Dwarf Signals!

Walt is reading over my shoulder, and says to tell you all that you're making him
laugh too much: makes his jaw hurt MORE!! But he LOVED your posts anyway!![:D]

[coalminer3]

Fond memories re Dutch doors.

Going west over Alleghany on a beautiful fall afternoon. One of my favorite C&O memories.

On the L&N's Pan American northbound out of Nashville.

Riding on the Southern Crescent between Atlanta and Birmingham.

Two from Amtrak - Going west up Sherman Hill (yrs. ago), and a trip on the Floridian going from Birmingham to Nashville when it detoured over the old NC&StL.

Train crews all looked "the other way" or rode with me as they wanted to get some air, too. BTW, got some great pictures.

work safe

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

Darn things are still missing, too!

Just start chanting OOMPA LOOMPA.......they'll come back...

[daveklepper]

Mark H., weren't Dutch Doors really designed so one could savor the coal smoke and prove one had been on a train trip by emerging covered with soot?

[edblysard]

That, and the bugs in your teeth...[:D]

Ed

[gbrewer]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mvlandsw

And the mist of water when somebody flushes at 60 mph.

I used to wonder what that fine mist was all about, but I tried not to think about it.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by daveklepper

Mark H., weren't Dutch Doors really designed so one could savor the coal smoke and prove one had been on a train trip by emerging covered with soot?

Hah. You got that benefit anyway--in those days to get air conditioning you opened the windows! Pullmans got screens (1st class)[:D]

[CShaveRR]

I remember a GTW conductor granting me and my friends "vestibule privileges" on a trip from Battle Creek to Chicago. Yes, and the "mist" on an otherwise clear day.

[M636C]

Guys,

At least some of the mist was from steam heating! Remember that, before there was HEP!

However, even "clean" water mixed with road dust just covered you with grime.

In 1977, I was riding the "Empire Builder" from Seattle (or was it Portland(?)) to Chicago. The train had FOUR SDP40Fs that were going back to EMD for rebuild. We crossed a train in Spokane that had two new F40PHs on it (and a heater car).
Anyway, the relevant bit was that the trailing car was a Budd sleeper-dome-cafe with the vestibule trailing. With all that power, we arrived between 10-15 minutes early everywhere! Having a sleeper ticket, I rode in the cafe dome for much of the way, with two other people, one of whom had a radio tuned to local country music stations. I spent some time in the vestibule watching the mileposts go past every forty seconds (at eighty miles an hour) and getting really dusty. I think there was a chain across the vestibule doorway, and the dutch doors were open. I don't imagine open observation cars got much use at that speed.

Earlier on the same trip I used the vestibule of the Coast Starlight to photograph the locomotives as we climbed north out of San Luis Obispo.

Peter

[Kozzie]

From all of the above, it seems like those Dutch Doors have a mutitude of uses.[:)] Thanks for the stories...[;)]...good stuff! [:)]

Dave