What all do they do at Rose Yard in Altoona?

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

oltmannd

  [snip] Not sure exactly how it came to be known as Rose, but it's been that way since I was just a trainee... [snip]

 

This afternoon I got a quick peek at Charles Roberts' PRR - Triumph IV: Harrisburg to Altoona.  The index said ROSE was on pp. 226-229, and there it stated that it was RZ (IIRC) until about 1942 or 1943, then became ROSE.  No explanation, so I speculate it was just the mnemonic from RZ ==> ROSE, that's all. 

Thanks for all that other info, too, Don.   

- Paul North. 

P.S. - Why don't the 'emoticons' above have a 'Highball' motion too ? 

[oltmannd]

Sorry. I forget that I live in RR acronym-land sometimes... B&B is Bridges and Buildings. C&S is Communication and Signals

[BT CPSO 266]

 

oltmannd

There is B&B, C&S, and MOW folk there along with a trainmaster.

Stupid question, I probably know it, but what are B&B & C&S short for?

Having a huge mental block and can not find the answer anywhere.

[chatanuga]

oltmannd

There is also a yard job that works to Hollidaysburg.

That would be this train that I caught on my 2004 trip to Altoona.

It headed down the Hollidaysburg branch and had some wrecked cars on it.

Kevin

[oltmannd]

BT CPSO 266

What all goes on at the Yard office? Track Supervisor there too? It would seem there would be more going on there than just yard business.

There is B&B, C&S, and MOW folk there along with a trainmaster.

BT CPSO 266

I guess locals going to and from South Fork, Cresson, Tyrone, and possibly Johnstown originate and terminate here to still? 

There are three locals out of Altoona. Two work east, one as far as Mapleton, the other all the way to Lewistown. One works west to Johnstown. There is also a yard job that works to Hollidaysburg.

[oltmannd]

BT CPSO 266

Plus, I have always wondered about that track that seems to come out of the eastern part of the yard, rejoins the main, and seems to become the third track of the mainline all the way to Tyrone?

You mean at CP-Gray? It's just the yard lead at the north end of the yard that does indeed become a main track at Gray.

[BT CPSO 266]

I guess locals going to and from South Fork, Cresson, Tyrone, and possibly Johnstown originate and terminate here to still? 

What all goes on at the Yard office? Track Supervisor there too? It would seem there would be more going on there than just yard business.

Plus, I have always wondered about that track that seems to come out of the eastern part of the yard, rejoins the main, and seems to become the third track of the mainline all the way to Tyrone?

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

Now I'm gonna have some fun here - I warned Larry / tree68 that he'd created a monster   - all of these were taken mid-Sunday afternoon, Aug. 16, 2009 from the N. 8th St. bridge, and are unretouched and unedited in any way:

The namesake - CP ROSE - looking southwest - Rose Yard is the tracks in the left background:

 Another view, looking down the tangent towards downtown Altoona - shows the Yard and its contents a little better:

I believe this is the yard office - it has to be the spiffiest one I've ever seen, wouldn't you agree ?

 The 'crew change' point, across the 2 Main Tracks to the right of CP ROSE.  The white signs on the post to the right say ''CREW UNLOADING PLATFORM'' and ''Dispose of Trash Properly'':

Finally - the 'finial' ? on top of the light tower on the other (NE) side of the bridge - a real 'Art Deco' icon, don't you think ?

 

- Paul North. 

 

[oltmannd]

"Rose yard" is the tracks across the main from the locomotive shop. The real name of the yard is Altoona. Not sure exactly how it came to be known as Rose, but it's been that way since I was just a trainee... The yard office is nearly under the bridge to the north of the shop. It's where the crews go on and off duty. The yard functions as serving yard for the local trains that serve local industry as well as a place to block swap. I don't know if they usually do it there or if they use tracks down by ALTO tower for this, though. It's all within the yard limits though.

I don't think NS does the block swaps for tonnage balance, just for convenience. It's a nice "wide spot in the road" to get merchandise traffic sorted out without clogging up Conway.

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

For the uninitiated, Rose Yard is at CP ROSE, which is about where the SE-NW N. 8th Street bridge goes over the railroad - not Avenue, as also near there is SW-NE 8th Avenue, which runs at 90 degrees to 8th Street but is about 4 blocks west of the railroad.  Also, this bridge and ROSE are actually in the Juniata section, not Altoona proper - just to the northeast of the Juniata Shops. 

Now - exactly which collection of tracks in that vicinity is Rose Yard ?  Because as I see it there are actually 3 small yards in that vicinity, as follows:

1)  A ladder track under the northern half of the bridge goes to the west, and which I believe was part of the old westbound cassification yard.  It serves about 10 tracks which are about 1/2 mile long, and when I've been there and in photos I've seen seem to be occupied mainly by coal cars;

2)  Going the other way from the northern half of the bridge is another ladder track the leads to the RIP = Repair-In-Place open-air car shop building about 1/4 mile north, on the left; and to a small yard on the right that has about 4 or 5 through = double-ended tracks about 1/2 mile long that eventually tie back into the EB main Track 1, and 8 or 10 stub tracks about 0.3 to 0.4 mile long that end at the old Juniata 17th St. bridge; and,

3)  Then, under the south half of the N. 8th St. bridge is the former eastbound classification yard, also consisting of about 10 to 12 tracks from 3/4 to 1 mile long, which seems to be fighting off brush encroachment and which seems to be used mainly for storage of cars. 

In this context, a 'block' is a group of cars all of which are going to the same destination city or yard, such as at New York City, Philly, or Boston, etc.  ''Block swapping'' means that if several trains originating further out and now going past the same point each have cars for the same destinations, the network system works better if those trains set off the blocks of cars for those same destinations, especially if that destination is not on the route that the rest of the train is going; and then pick up any blocks of cars that are in line for the trains' destinations.

For a simple and fictional example, suppose that there are 2 daily trains - 1 from Chicago going to NYC/ Northern New Jersey, and 1 from St. Louis going to Philadelphia, and each goes eastbound through Altoona and has a block of several cars for each of the cities that I mentioned above.  Rather than take the Philly cars that are in the Chicago train all the way to North Jersey and then have to send them back, it's better to set them off in Altoona.  Then, the St. Louis train can pick them up and continue to Philly.  Likewise, the St. Louis train can set off its cars for NYC, and the next Chicago train headed for North Jersey can pick them up.  The Boston-bound cars are a toss-up - they can get there by any of several routes, but those all need to converge on Selkirk Yard at Albany, the 'gateway' to Boston.  So those blocks could go in either train and/ or be dropped at either Enola/ Harrisburg, Reading, or Allentown, or even North Jersey, for further forwarding to Selkirk.

The ''Railfan's Guide to Horseshoe Curve'' by Michael Bezilla that appeared in the May 1992 RailPace newsmagazine - pp. 21-36 inclusive - noted on pages 20-21 that only the daily Conway-Enola freights would regularly set off and pick up at ROSE, but other westbound freights ''will pick up Conway-bound cars to fill out their trains'' to maximum tonnage.

Since there are limits on the maximum tonnage for the various types of trains, I'll speculate that Rose Yard might also serve as a good place for westbound trains to drop any extra tonnage they may have for pick-up by later trains as a fill-out as above, and/ or for any excess tonnage taken off from eastbound trains before they descend the East Slope, to be added back in to a train for the more water-level Middle Division run.

Spending some time there with a scanner or at the Railroader's Museum might also result in some  insights.

- Paul North.

[BT CPSO 266]

 What are road train block swaps?  There seems to be a lot more going on there.

[oltmannd]

BT CPSO 266

What exactly is the purpose of Rose Yard anymore?

Besides crew changes and locals going down the Hollidaysburg Branch. 

 

That's about it. That's about all it's been for a long while. They actually do some road train block swaps in Altoona, too.

[BT CPSO 266]

What exactly is the purpose of Rose Yard anymore?

Besides crew changes and locals going down the Hollidaysburg Branch.