Anyone ride classic trains The Broadway limited, Super Chief, Empire Builder or any

[Anonymous]

Can you tell me what you thought of these great trains of the past. Im interested in hearing what people think about the trains of railroads golden era.

[passengerfan]

I was fortunate enough to ride the three you mentioned and many more besides beginning in the 1947 I rode the new at that time EMPIRE BUILDER to young at the time to remember much about the journey between Everett and St. Paul other than what has been related to me by my late mother. The trips on the EMPIRE BUILDER during the 1950's and 1960's I well remember but thiis was a far different streamliner than the one I first rode in 1947. For this streamliner was now known as the WESTERN STAR. I also rode the rival trains of the NP the NORTH COAST LIMITED and MAINSTREETER, and the CMSTP&P OLYMPIAN HIAWATHA. The EMPIRE BUILDER always seemed to go just one step further than the others. The service in the dining cars of all three roads was superb and the Pullman attendants in the sleeping cars of all three roads trains even remembered the little things like shining the passenger shoes and never was I refused an extra towel or two when i needed more of a sponge bath from the small sink provided in the room. One never forgets the fine china in the dining cars or the silver serving items and all three roads provided a fresh flower in a vase at every dining room table. The white table linens heavily starched as were the dining car waiters uniforms. The balancing act the waiters were able to perform with the large silver trays bringing four guests at a time their meals. I can't ever remember a waiter dropping a tray as he brought the fare to a table. The Pullman Porters would turn a passengers bed down and those Pullman blankets were nice and warm when winter was howling outside your bedroom window. The individual heat and air controls and the trusty fan with the rubber blades will never be forgotten nor will the private bathroom facilities be forgotton with the tightly rolled toilet paper not on rolls like you would find in your home. In the lounge of these streamliners one would find a desk with free postcards and stationary with the trains name or the railroads name on same.
The passenger trains of the fifties and sixties and even into the early seventies in Canada were superb and I feel very fortunate that I was able to ride the finest trains in North America during this period of time and never was I disappointed in a streamliner except for a single trip on the SP SUNSET where sleeping cars were not offered and for meals their was only a hambuger grill car. The great trains such as the SUPER CHIEF, BROADWAY LIMITED, CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR, CITY OF LOS ANGELES, TWENTIETH CENTURY LIMITED, FLORIDA SPECIAL, NORTH COAST LIMITED, EMPIRE BUILDER, CANADIAN, OLYMPIAN HIAWATHA, DENVER ZEPHYR, SUPER CONTINENTAL, OCEAN and many others remained great. While I did not ride all of the great trains I rode more than my share and one trip on the SP never spoiled it for me for I also rode on the SP SHASTA DAYLIGHT, CASCADE, SAN JOAQUIN DAYLIGHT, OWL and even the COAST DAYLIGHT and they were all excellent trains. The one train I regret not having rode is the SILVER METEOR. Today I have to settle for Amtrak which I believe is better than no passenger trains at all. I have had some excellent travel on Amtrak and VIA Rail Canada and have to admit I have never ridden a train in Europe or Asia but can Chalk up the finest Australia has to offer the INDIAN PACIFIC EXPRESS between Sydney and Perth. Before I leave this earth I would like to experience travel across Russia from Moscow to the Pacific.

[Anonymous]

Rode the Super in June 1973 with my new bride. Even though it was ATK, it was still all Santa Fe, and very little had changed. Superb!

[eastside]

Cf. recent threads: "The 20th Century Limited - Did you ride it?" and "What's your favorite pre-Amtrak passenger train?"

[RudyRockvilleMD]

My recollections of streamliners include the California Zephyr, the Empire Builder, the Capitol Limited, the Natioal Limited, the Chief, and the Super Chief.

In 1964 my wife and I took the B&O's National Limited from Silver Spring, MD to St Louis on the first leg to a rail trip through Mexico. We had a double Slumberroom Coach which was actually a Pullman double bedroom sleeper in the sleeping car section of the train. We spent quite a bit of time in the observation car between Cincinnati and St Louis. We ate lunch in the dining car, and my wife complained to the steward the mashed potatoes had too much pepper; he replaced her mashed potatoes with a portion that was not seasoned. We rode the El Regiomontano an all sleeper train from Monterrey, Mexico to Mexico City, and many of the sleepers seemed to be ex 20th Century Limited cars. we returned on the Santa Fe's Chief from Albuqueque to Chicago, where we experienced the Fred harvey dining car service. We took the Capitol Limited from Chicago back to Silver Spring, MD, and it was combined with the Ambassador at Willard, OH.

I took a business trip to the West Coast in 1966. I used the Capitol Limited to Chicago, the Empire Builder to Seattle, the Daylight (or what was left of it) from San Francisco to Los Angeles, the Super Chief form Los Angeles to Chicago, and the Capitol Limited back to Silver Spring, MD While the service on the Super Chief and the Empire Builder were still first class things had started to deteriorate on the other trains. As we approached Chicago on the Capitol Limited we were running neck and neck with the 20th Century Limited, and for a while it looked asif we would pass it. But the 20th Century limited got the green signal to cross the B&O's tracks so we stopped. The Empire Builder ran on time, and it ran through Glacier Park in the middle of the afternoon. The Empire Builder's dining car steward came back to the Super Dome lounge car as the train was passing through Glacier Park, and he pointed out some of the wild life, and he also told us about his volunteer work with burn victims with a great deal of satisfaction.

I took a similar business trip to the West Coast in 1967, and I used the California Zephyr from Salt Lake City to Chicago, and the Capitol from Chicago. By then railroad passenger service as we knew itbegan to deteriorate, My boss also told me no more trains to the West Coast in 1968, but by then many trains were gone. That is when I started to fly both for business and pleasure trips. I have only ridden Amtrak in the Northeast Corridor because i remember passenger trains as they were during their golden years, and Amtrak doesn't measure up to it.

[passengerfan]

RudyRockvilleMD.
Its to bad you haven't sampled Amtraks Superliner trains operating in the west. I have had the pleasure of riding the Superliner equipped EMPIRE BUILDER, SOUTHWEST CHIEF, COAST STARLIGHT, SUNSET, and CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR and have found all far superior to any of the flying cattle cars from Boeing or Airbus you mentioned. The Deluxe Bedrooms are roomier than the old Pullman bedrooms and include a working shower in the annex which is also roomier than the old Pullman offered. Maybe they are not domes but the Superliner lounges are excellent for meeting fellow passengers and having a cocktail or two. Though the meals for the most part are not up to the standards of old they are not at all bad better than many restaurants are serving. Try VIA Rail Canada if you want to travel like trains of old but that is disappearing in the east with the introduction of the Renaissance cars between Montreal and Halifax. Ride the Canadian while you can, no word yet but those cars are turning fifty this year and next and nothing lasts forever. But please don't turn up your nose at the Superliners they are pretty good when you look closer.

[Anonymous]

The Superliners, as equipment, are arguably overall the finest modern long distance rail pax rolling stock ever produced. There are some technical issues, but they usually do not seriously detract from the overall passenger impression of well-maintained Superliner cars. The ATSF hilevels run a very close second.

[eastside]

What really distinguished the top pre-Amtrak trains was the level of staffing. The numbers that come to mind is that the typical loading of the 20th Century Limited in its heyday was about 100 passengers to 70 crew, about 1.4 to 1. Other top trains weren't too different. You won't see that again in a scheduled passenger train in the US. I noticed and remember the difference that staffing makes, especially in contrast to my Amtrak rides.

Personally, rather than holding a grudge against the railroads, I'm amazed that they put up with such uneconomic propositions for so long after the advent of the jet passenger plane.

[BaltACD]

As the son of a railroader most of my childhood vacations revolved around travel on trains. Those that I recall were The Capitol Limited, The National Limited, The Royal Blue, The Cincinnatian and The Columbian all operated by the B&O. In addition trips were also taken on The Panama Limited (when it was still all Pullman), The Gulf Wind, The Silver Meteor, The Silver Star, The East Coast Champion. I also recall a trip or to to New York on the Congressional and the Federal after the B&O quit the New York passenger business. I even got to ride on The El Capitan when is made its press introduction trips to the East Coast, a 'dinner train' run from Washington DC to Point of Rocks and return.

For the most part all these trips were made when the railroads were really trying to make passenger train travel an enjoyable experience in the effort to secure business, The level of staffing in some cases seemed to exceed the level of passengers. While it was truly a grand way to travel, even as a child I could see the economics would doom it.

But what fun it was!

[kenneo]

City of Portland, Portland Rose, North Coast Limited, Empire Builder, Mount Rainier, City of Denver, Phoebe Snow, Broadway Limited, City of Denver, City of Los Angeles, City of St. Louis, Idahoan, Cascade, Shasta Daylight.

The SP was putting vending machines in the place of diners in the 60"s but the other trains had excellent service. The Empire Builder was the best, however.

[daveklepper]

While the California Zephyr was tops for scenery and the service was still good, ditto the food, the equipment was a bit scruffy by the time I rode it. The io Grande Zephyr was actually an improvement in that one respect. The Super Chief was 100% into the early days of Amtrak who didn't change anything except using a lot of AT&SF F-7's to replace newer power. In 1959 the broadway and Century and Panama Limited were sitll 100%. The Broadway decayed more slowly than the Century. The Capitol Limited, all the best Florida Trains, the Crescent, the George Washington, the City of Miami, and the UP City of Los Angeles, the Denver Zephyr, all did not loose much luster toward the start of Amtrak. The worst experiences I had were when an RS2 or RS3 and two coaches and a combine showed up on the schedule that the streamliner built for the Flkying Yankee was supposed to cover, Boston - Troy, and the "buffet service" was non-existant. But the Floridian which alternated with the City of Miami was pretty bad, scruffy equipment, just passable food, very rough track, and way off schedule, quite a contrast with the City of Miami!

[Anonymous]

Just by happenstance, I rode the last eastbound run of the Broadway Ltd. It was around Christmas of 1968. I was a student at the University of Minnesota at the time and was returning to my home in Philadelphia for the holiday. I first took a Milwaukee Road train (either the Hiawatha or Pioneer Ltd.) from the Twin Cities to Chicago's Union Station. As I boarded the Broadway there I noticed TV cameras on the platform. At first I thought a celebrity must be on board but a porter told me that they were covering the Broadway's run.

At many of the small stations in Indiana and Ohio, small knots of people had gathered on the platforms just to see the train for the last time. This went on well into the early morning hours. I particularly remember this at Crestline where the train stopped for refueling.

The Broadway was by far the smoothest and quietest ride I'd had in a train up to that time. Since then I've had the pleasure of riding trains in France and Germany and they far surpass anything over here sad to say. The Pennsy's tracks were in far better shape than the Milwaukee's, although the Pullman cars on the Broadway probably gave a smoother, quieter ride than the Milwaukee's coaches.

Inside, it was all beige with a double unit diner, a midtrain lounge and a rear observation car. At dinner, I had the Duck L'Orange which, I believe, was the signature item on the Broadway's menu for many years. It was excellent as was the service. The Pennsy used to advertise that menu item in The New Yorker magazine. Unlike today, you dressed for dinner in the diner. Men wore suits and women dresses. It seemed very elegant to me.

After dinner, I went to the observation car and had a very nice conversation with a fellow who was a superintendent from the Pittsburg division. He regaled me with stories of his RR career and his love for the Pennsy. He was heartsick at the the loss of the Broadway.

Unfortunately, I slept through the Horseshoe Curve but woke up in time for Harrisburg where a GG-1 was substituted for the diesels (three E-7s or E-8s). I seem to recall that a newspaper (either the NY Times or the Phila. Bulletin) was left at the door of each compartment in the morning. Leaving Harrisburg it was impossible not to notice how much more quickly the GG-1 accelerated the train than did the diesels. The difference was very noticable. Then came the ride through the Philly Mainline suburbs (lots of ancient MUs on the local tracks) and on into North Philadelphia Station (very dirty and decepit by then).

It was a great ride but sad too as it would never be duplicated. Of course, the Pennsy and, later, Amtrak ran a train called the Broadway after this but it was never the same after they added coaches and ran it on a different schedule (It was really The General with a different name).

I've ridden the Empire Builder, North Coast Ltd.and the CP's Canadian as well as some of the TGV and ICE trains in Europe but that ride on the Broadway is still the most memorable train trip of them all.

Charlie Swope

[espeefoamer]

I rode both the Coast Daaylight and the San Joaquin Daylight in 1961.This was just before SP built the Automat cars,so both trains had diners.The San Joaquin had a 3/4 length dome.I rode a parlor car on the Coast Daylight but this was a full parlor and not the observation car.The Coast Daylight was all Red & Orange except the engines.

[Anonymous]

Well I rode the Broadway LTD two weeks before Amtrak dropped it.

[Modelcar]

...10-4 on the hard pull of a GG-1 out of Harrisburg...That I experienced many years ago when we were comparing the just removed K-4's. The electrics really had the power to pull the train up to speed....!
One comment: In about 1957 we were scheduled to catch the Aero-train at Pitsburgh to head east..[to Johnsown], and when we arrived and went to the platform to board the train it was a conventional make up of passenger cars....and on each seat was a paper explaining the Aero-train was in for it's once a month service...Hence, no ride on the Aero-train and never had a chance to try to do it again....What a disappointment.