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CN FREEPORT SUB (Rockford to Cicero)

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Posted by tree68 on Monday, March 5, 2018 1:13 PM

CShaveRR
And hotels--I'd forgotten about the ones that have trains going by them regularly--

At long last the folks in Milford, MI are discussing the possibility of putting a hotel on the site of the old Ford carburetor plant (one of Henry's "village industries - a fascinating topic itself).  It is right next to the CSX Saginaw Sub.  Not just close, directly next to.  There's no public lodging in town right now, so I'd imagine it will get used.  

Traffic on the Saginaw Sub isn't what it once was, so I doubt it'll be a major issue.  I do wonder if they'll put in a pedestrian crossing as a direct link to downtown...

One thing that long held such a project up was the brownfield status of the site.

The factory was never rail-served despite PM/C&O/CSX going right by.

LarryWhistling
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Posted by CShaveRR on Monday, March 5, 2018 10:38 AM

bradidas

Well, I'd be happy with more, but have to consider how my wife and kids would feel about trains barreling through our backyard in the middle of the night!  When I need my train fix, I can make the mile or two trek up to the UP tracks through Elmhurst that have ~100 trains a day going by.

Trust me--if there are good houses by the tracks, it won't make a bit of difference.  Pat and I (daughter Linda, too) have stayed at B&Bs at Cresson and Gallitzin, Pennsylvania, and near Galesburg on the ex-ATSF main line--the trains go right by (at speed in Galesburg, with no intervening street; and climbing grades in Gallitzin with a tunnel amplifying the sound), and when it comes time to sleep, it's situation normal...she's out like a light, and I would have no clue as to how many trains I missed.  It probably depends on the individual(s) involved, but one gets used to it.

And hotels--I'd forgotten about the ones that have trains going by them regularly--we ask for the rooms with the best view, and the noise is no bother (we've had a couple where the approaching trains would shine their ever-lovin' lights on us...not a problem unless one sleeps with one's eyes open).  

Carl

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Monday, March 5, 2018 6:59 AM

Dad once told me similar stories about real estate agents selling new houses that backed up against the SC&S line (PRR) through Hegewisch, although they claimed that the line was about to be abandoned.  Last time I looked, the tracks were still in place, although with very light traffic.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by samfp1943 on Saturday, March 3, 2018 1:19 PM

 

bradidas wrote the following post[in part]:

"...The realtor has said that 2-4 trains per day pass.  Can any of you either confirm or refute that estimate? .."

Word of Caution! Unless that Real Estate agent is your wife, or a close ,trusted relative.        I'd suggest that you do your own physical research**; and count the trains over that line yourself...[Unless you have access to a railroad employee, who can be definitive with their information.]   Bear in mind, that most freight traffic moves on its own schedules, for the most part.  Commuter rail, should be determined with a schedule...

 ** Note: We used to have a poster around here who purchased a home, next to a railline; I believe he said the real estate agent had indicated that particular line was 'abandoned?'.  After he moved in he found that information was baloney. [ I suspect that Shadow the Cat's Owner, might have the rest of that story?Whistling

P.S. for what it is worth, I live on a BNSF 'feeder main' for Southern T-Con, that line is in a deep cut, on my property's side; the cut pushes most of the sounds up. Lived here for a couple of years, plenty of trains to watch, and the disruptions are a minimal.

 

 


 

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Posted by bradidas on Thursday, March 1, 2018 9:02 AM

Well, I'd be happy with more, but have to consider how my wife and kids would feel about trains barreling through our backyard in the middle of the night!  When I need my train fix, I can make the mile or two trek up to the UP tracks through Elmhurst that have ~100 trains a day going by.

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Posted by jeffhergert on Wednesday, February 28, 2018 4:02 PM

bradidas

Hello-

I apologize for bringing a very old thread back to life, but I'm considering purchasing a home that is directly adjacent to the CN tracks through Elmhurst.  The realtor has said that 2-4 trains per day pass.  Can any of you either confirm or refute that estimate?  Additionally, at least when this thread was active, it looks like the majority of trains passing through Elmhurst were at night, is that still the case?  

 

Thanks so much for any assistance!

 

The real question is:  Since you're buying a house and you are on the Trains forum, do you hope to see more or less trains than what the realtor said?  

Enquiring minds want to know. 

Jeff (I'd be hoping for more myself.)

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Posted by Los Angeles Rams Guy on Tuesday, February 27, 2018 10:58 AM
Having grown up not far from the IC/ICG/CC/CN Iowa Division mainline in northeast Iowa, I am curious as to how many ethanol trains originate out of the ethanol plant just west of Dyersville these days. I haven't been back there as of late but when I am, it seems as if I'm lucky just to be able to catch mainstays 337 and 338.
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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Tuesday, February 27, 2018 6:53 AM

My older stepson and his family live about 100 yards from this line and it appears that 2-4 trains daily is about right.  It is a quiet zone through Elmhurst, including the crossing of the Illinois Prairie Path.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by CShaveRR on Monday, February 26, 2018 4:12 PM

Well, there's your answer, before I got a chance to get in here.  I knew that it was a quiet zone (and remember the days when it wasn't).  I didn't know about the two trains per day in either direction, but that is certainly a reasonable guess.  

Carl

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CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)

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Posted by bradidas on Monday, February 26, 2018 3:34 PM

This is great info, I had no idea that FRA had crossing reports you could download.  York St is the nearest Grade crossing, I was able to get the ENS number of Google Street View, and now I am looking at the FRA report that says 2 daytime and 2 nighttime trains per day and that's it's a 24 hour quiet zone.  Thanks so much for sending me in the right direction.

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Posted by mudchicken on Monday, February 26, 2018 3:21 PM

(1) you did not say exactly where. Bracket your location with the DOT # on the ENS signs at the crossing on either side of where you are.

(2) You may possibly be in a quiet zone (QZ) depending where you are.

(3) Using West Avenue as an example, DOT# 289-856G at MP 20.6 on the Freeport Sub., last updated by IL-DOT on 1/29/18  you are looking at 2 daytime trains and 2 nighttime trains in a QZ per the FRA record* (40 MPH track) with no normal switching movements.

 

(*) Filled out and maintained by an IL-DOT employee of dubvious reliability, who may or may not know what he or she is doing. Data integrity of late is not good, the quiet zone is not on any federal list for CN QZ's in Illinois.

(**) Freight trains are not scheduled, frequency can change in a heartbeat and can be effected by any number of variables.

Comments Carl (Mr Lombard)?

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
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Posted by bradidas on Monday, February 26, 2018 2:21 PM

Hello-

I apologize for bringing a very old thread back to life, but I'm considering purchasing a home that is directly adjacent to the CN tracks through Elmhurst.  The realtor has said that 2-4 trains per day pass.  Can any of you either confirm or refute that estimate?  Additionally, at least when this thread was active, it looks like the majority of trains passing through Elmhurst were at night, is that still the case?  

 

Thanks so much for any assistance!

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Posted by EJE818 on Monday, April 5, 2010 12:47 PM

I've seen M337 depart Hawthorne in the late afternoon/early evening before, I'm not sure if they still leave aound that time or if the schedule was changed, this was a year ago. CN also runs a couple locals out of Hawthorne but I'm not sure what time they run. Coincidently, they've been using EJ&E power for these locals at times recently!

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Posted by pkielty on Saturday, April 3, 2010 12:25 PM
You have got a little engineer blood in you, LWales. Or you have a lot of time on your hands. But thanks for the information. Again-- there is a lot of stuff being moved these days, and even a sleepy little place like at Munger Road ,there is a lot of hidden stuff happening.
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Posted by LWales on Tuesday, March 30, 2010 8:33 PM

I don't know how much room would be available in the NE quadrant. The present connection is there in the NE quadrant--the standard 'ramp' going west off the CN/IC up to the old EJ&E going north (timetable westward). The present connection is pretty tight--it sort of follows the IC line and then makes the bend northward to follow along the old EJ&E. It was built as an interchange track to handle cuts of loose cars--it certainly wasn't designed for 130-car trains.

The planned future operations call for Freeport Sub. trains to originate and terminate in the old EJ&E yard at Joliet (or maybe they'll go over to Kirk yard in Gary, IN). For that to be efficient they wanted to make the connection in the SW quadrant. That way an eastbound train from Freeport, IL could take the switch and end up facing south on the EJ&E and vice versa--a westbound train made up in Joliet would be able to directly run west onto the Freeport Sub. To be able to do this connection any other direct way would call for a full loop (or jug handle) so an eastbound Freeport Sub train would duck under the old EJ&E, curve to the left and loop around itself as it climbs up to the EJ&E--just like a Tollway cloverleaf interchange. That will certainly eat up a bunch of land in the NE quadrant and I'm not sure of ownership issues in that area.

The CN has installed two new CTC switches at "North Iowa" (at the north end of the current ramp where it joins the EJ&E) and 'East J' (where the bottom end of the ramp joins the CN/IC Freeport Sub), so it seems like the CN is happy to make the backup move with the trains at present. Again, I think that only eastbound M338 regularly makes the backup move (although plenty of other CN traffic uses the ramp--southbound CN trains come down from Wisconsin, onto the EJ&E at Leithton and then use the east end of the Freeport Sub to head to Hawthorne Yard). so the present arrangement may be acceptable for one train a day, but it might have to be revisited if CN traffic levels increase.

Lance

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Posted by pkielty on Tuesday, March 30, 2010 5:31 PM

that is great information.  Thanks much.

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Posted by pkielty on Tuesday, March 30, 2010 5:30 PM

Right now there is only a connection in the NE quadrant, so only trains going SB on the EJ&E can connect directly if it is going inbound (east) toward chicago.  I  have been stuck many times at the Stearns Road crossing waiting for those trains to clear, and I ahve never seen a train backup.  That would be painfully slow.

that is the only switch on that interconnect!

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Monday, March 29, 2010 7:31 PM

LWales
They were supposed to build a connection in the south-west quadrant at Munger so they don't have to make the backup move, but it borders a forest preserve and they wouldn't sell the CN the needed land--so welcome to 130 car trains making slow backup moves and blocking crossings for longer than necessary!

Any space available in the NE corner for a jug handle type connection?. I am assuming there is already a connection track in the SE corner?.

 

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Posted by LWales on Monday, March 29, 2010 5:48 PM

The next siding west from Munger would be Burlington. Next up would be Colvin Park there used to be a little town there, but basically it is about five miles west of Genoa, IL. On the east side of Rockford you have Buckbee Siding and then you have Seward. After that you'll be into Freeport. Back in the 1970s there were a few more options. Just west of the Rockford depot there was a siding called Case and then another out west of Rockford called Alworth.

Approx. siding lengths: Munger, 6100; Burlington, 6300; Colvin Park, 6600; Buckbee, 6700 and Seward, 7700. The siding at Freeport is about 8700 but there are yard tracks there too.

These trains may still use the Airline, but the CN has been running the eastbound M338 onto the old EJ&E at Munger by backing it up the connection track and then down to Joliet. They were supposed to build a connection in the south-west quadrant at Munger so they don't have to make the backup move, but it borders a forest preserve and they wouldn't sell the CN the needed land--so welcome to 130 car trains making slow backup moves and blocking crossings for longer than necessary!

Lance

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Posted by pkielty on Sunday, March 28, 2010 12:19 PM
Obviously you seem to be right on top of that. I am working on a bridge in south Elgin that is going to be replaced and I am trying to gage how much traffic is on that line. I see the ethanol trains quite a bit now, and occasionally the ethanol train with 40 or 50 grain cars lashed in for good measure. How many big sidings are there between Munger and Rockford, would you know? What kind of circuitous path is it from Hawthorne to Homewood. does that train go downtown on the Airline. Or does it end up on the Beltway?
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Posted by LWales on Tuesday, March 16, 2010 6:51 PM

The ethanol traffic on the CN Freeport Sub must get interchanged to some eastern connection in Chicago, as I don't know what they'd do with 75 loads of grain alcohol once it got there...

 As for scheduled traffic on the line, there are only two scheduled freights--one a day each way. Eastbound M338 is supposed to be out of Dubuque, IA with a fresh crew in the middle of the night and should be close to Munger about sunrise. A recent operating plan said that the train would be backed through the connection at Munger onto the old EJ&E and the train would run down through Joliet and ultimately terminate at Kirk Yard in Gary, IND. I heard from another that the CN was going to quit doing this, since the backup move onto the EJ&E was causing highway traffic back ups in the area. If that is the case, the train would run through Hawthorne and terminate at the old IC Markham Yard in Homewood.

Westbound M337 is usually out of Hawthorne about 10 PM to Midnight most evenings, so he would be meeting counterpart M338 somewhere between Freeport and Galena, IL in the pre-dawn hours.

 I know that there are ethanol trains, but I don't think that they are running everyday--at most I thought you might see two loads and emptys per week. But they have been known to run X337/X338-type trains if they have the traffic. So maybe an X337 would look like an ethanol train since there would likely be a number of tank cars in it. The unit ethanol trains have the symbol U704 (eastbound loads) and U703 (westbound empties). The ethanol trains aren't scheduled, as they load as the empty tank cars are returned to the plant.

Lance

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Posted by MP173 on Monday, March 15, 2010 2:32 PM

How frequent do ethanol trains run on the line?  Living in Northwest Indiana, there seems to be a constant parade of ethanol trains on the CSX line.  My guess is both the IC line and the DME line are seeing frequent moves....but how often/how many (in a week)?

 

Ed

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Posted by CGW on Monday, March 15, 2010 10:44 AM

pkielty

does the CN have a timetable for the traffic in this subdivision.  I see an ethanol train every day or so, and wondering how it is scheduled, and ultimately, where does it originate.  I was told it ends up at Hawthorne Yard in Cicero, where the CN picks up the empties for the return trip back.

CN has many online ethonal plants including one in Dyersville, IA one in Lena, IL, a biodiesel plant in Farley, IA and I believe there may be more in western Iowa.  Ethanal has definitely brought this line back to life within the past couple of years.

Jeff

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Posted by WICT613 on Monday, March 15, 2010 9:55 AM

Getting a schedule for frieght trains is hard. The railroads are not allowed to give out that info on trains anymore do to new FRA regulations. The only thing you can really do is look to see what time of day it rolls by. But I can tell you that the train starts out of Iowa somewhere.

Working in the industry it is frustrating not telling rail fans the info cause most (99%) of rail fans just want to take some pics.

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Posted by schlimm on Sunday, March 14, 2010 4:47 PM

pkielty

does the CN have a timetable for the traffic in this subdivision.  I see an ethanol train every day or so, and wondering how it is scheduled, and ultimately, where does it originate.  I was told it ends up at Hawthorne Yard in Cicero, where the CN picks up the empties for the return trip back.

 

Living near the Munger interchange with the former EJ&E, I've also wondered about how to find out the schedule.  I posted an inquiry on the Yahoo IC Group and asked an old friend (a retired IC dispatcher) with no luck.

C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan

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CN FREEPORT SUB (Rockford to Cicero)
Posted by pkielty on Sunday, March 14, 2010 1:02 PM

does the CN have a timetable for the traffic in this subdivision.  I see an ethanol train every day or so, and wondering how it is scheduled, and ultimately, where does it originate.  I was told it ends up at Hawthorne Yard in Cicero, where the CN picks up the empties for the return trip back.

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