Paul_D_North_Jr Chapels on steel wheels how Catholic missionaries used chapel cars by Burghardt, Robert P. from Trains December 1992 p. 78 chapelcar
- Paul North.
Victtrol 1, said :
"...As master of the vessel, a ship's captain has traditionally lead religious services at sea. If no man of the cloth were available, would that duty fall to the conductor as master of the train?.."
Not necessarily a formal religous service [ Unless the individual has been Ordained as a minister]. Any individual ( add Railroad accepted title here...) can hold a sort of De Facto Service by quoting an appropriate verse or prayer to a willing assemblege of individuals.
I would bet that somewhere today, there is a quasi-religious service being held by a railroader(s) by simply invoking the name of The Diety, either first, or last name, or using both togeher ( any number of times?) or by appling the adjective 'HOLY...' to virtually a wide number of terms. .
Inter-denominational services are conducted every Sunday by the ship's staff (Captain, Cruise Director, etc.).
http://www.princess.com/learn/faq_answer/onboard/experience.jsp
As master of the vessel, a ship's captain has traditionally lead religious services at sea. If no man of the cloth were available, would that duty fall to the conductor as master of the train?
Thanks for this thread and all the info posted here! I look forward to reading all the linked articles ASAP.
Nance-CCABW/LEI
“Even if you are on the right track, you’ll get run over if you just sit there.” --Will Rogers
Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right! --unknown
Paul_D_North_Jr There was at least one article in Trains about 10 - 20 years ago on this kind of car. Unfortunately, I can't quickly find it in the "Index to Magazines" this morning. I'll keep looking - either there or in my stack of copies - have patience. [snip]
FINALLY !!! Ran across it last weekend whilst looking for yet something else (the Jackson raid of the B&O at Harper's Ferry story) - and now knowing the answer, it was easy to ask the right question:
But indexed under "chapelcar" ? No wonder I couldn't find it before . . .
All of this discussion of "chapel cars," and their religious connotation, brings to mind an incident from decades past.
I was working as the head brakeman on an eastbound road freight when our train became caught in a huge traffic jam at an intermediate terminal. After being stopped for a good long while, the engineer started to complain bitterly about our unfortunate circumstances.
Knowing this hoghead to be something of a "bible thumper" I said to him, "Burr, you know the anti-Christ has already been to earth."
"Really, and how do you figure that young man?" he replied.
"Well, isn't it obvious," I said alluding to our painful situation, " who else could have invented the railroad?"
And for you T.E.& Y. guys reading this, I'm sure you'll recognize the humor in my reply instantly.
At the risk of being verbally beaten up for 'GRAVE DIGGING'.
I have dug around in the FORUM vaults, and found this THREAD in response to a piece in the TRAINS Newswire of this date. (6/17/10).
It is a story of a $50,000.00 grant from the National Trust for Prservation and The American Express Foundation. Made to the current owners of the Chapel Car ' Messenger of Peace' for it's restoration. They are the Northwest Railway Museum in Snoqualmie, Washington.
The Chapel Cars were an important adjunct to the movement of society Westward. They are a little known facet of early railroad and trackside life. Many of us were not aware of them or how they functioned about the countryside, being moved from place to place by the graces of concerned railroader and in some cases as a movement paid for by the cars owners. Mostly, it was done by the order of railroad officers and facilitated by their rail workers.
Hope that those that missed the original post will enjoy its resurection.
Linked here is the website referencing the Baptist Publication Society's Messenger of Peace Chapel Car:
http://www.trainmuseum.org/MoP/A.asp
And the NWRM website: http://www.trainmuseum.org/
OH! He was a switch hitter!
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Der fliegende Holländer
PITTSBURGH, March 13, 1951 (AP)
Honus Wagner, veteran Pittsburgh Pirate baseball coach who often is called "the greatest shortstop of them all" will throw the first switch when the Pennsylvania Railroad dedicates "Wagner Tower" at Carnegie, near Pittsburgh today.
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1748527
http://memory.loc.gov/service/pnp/cph/3c00000/3c08000/3c08300/3c08375v.jpg
wjstixwanswheel And now here is this man Wagner who tries his hand at music. Just listen to the stuff. And yet we all know he builds good parlor cars." Wow, that Wagner guy was a composer and made passenger cars?? No wonder his baseball card is worth so much !!
wanswheel And now here is this man Wagner who tries his hand at music. Just listen to the stuff. And yet we all know he builds good parlor cars."
And now here is this man Wagner who tries his hand at music. Just listen to the stuff. And yet we all know he builds good parlor cars."
Wow, that Wagner guy was a composer and made passenger cars?? No wonder his baseball card is worth so much !!
"...Johannes Peter "Honus" Wagner (pronounced /ˈhɒnəs ˈwæɡnər/; February 24, 1874 – December 6, 1955[1] ), nicknamed The Flying Dutchman due to his superb speed and German heritage, was an American Major League Baseball shortstop who played in the National League from 1897 to 1917, almost entirely for the Pittsburgh Pirates...
...In 1936, the Baseball Hall of Fame inducted Wagner as one of the first five members. He received the second-highest vote total, behind Ty Cobb and tied with Babe Ruth......
...A stirring march and two step," titled "Husky Hans", and "respectfully dedicated to Hans Wagner, Three time Champion Batsman of The National League" was written by William J. Hartz in 1904..."
And last but not least, His baseball card sold in Feb. 2007:
"Honus Wagner card sold for $2.35 million" Not bad for a kid from Pittsburg.
Wagner's music is better than it sounds. - Mark Twain's Autobiography (re-quoting humorist Edgar Wilson "Bill" Nye)
Paul_D_North_JrUnfortunately, few people - including railfans - would 'get it', unless they're into old passenger cars. Good thing that it wasn't about the builder of most of the Chapel Cars - ''Barney & Smith'' - instead, or we might be having Flintstones jokes instead . . .
Yes, Paul. I wonder how many of our contributors know of both Wagner the composer and Wagner the car builder.
I never, of course, rode in one, but I am sure that Barney and Smith's cars were much more comfortable (and less taxing on the energy of the rider) than Fred Flintstone's car.
Johnny
Paul_D_North_JrWhere did you find that one ?
On page 82 of Mr. Rust's book. Chapter VII Music Department.
It seems that two young men came in from a neighboring town to attend a "show" in the opera house which is very near the Baptist church. Before going to the "show" they visited several saloons, and by eight P.M. were in anything but a gentlemanly condition. Being directed to the opera house, they by mistake got into the Baptist church building. Both structures were large brick buildings near the court house, and they could easily make the mistake when under the influence of liquor. They stayed until the close of the meeting and returned to their homes. When asked the next morning, "How did you like the show?" they replied, "Oh, we have seen better shows in our own town, but the leading lady was a fine singer."
That belongs over in the ''The new and (not very) improved humor thread'' thread, now at -
http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/t/148958.aspx?PageIndex=12
Where did you find that one ? And - so true, so true.
I'm reminded of the following from the ''Quotes of the Month'' column in the November 1982 Trains, if I recall correctly:
''There are two kinds of people . . . locomotive engineers, and those who want to be !'' - a lawyer who became a UP engineer, as quoted in the UP's employee magazine then.
Unfortunately, few people - including railfans - would 'get it', unless they're into old passenger cars. Good thing that it wasn't about the builder of most of the Chapel Cars - ''Barney & Smith'' - instead, or we might be having Flintstones jokes instead . . .
And I'm still looking for the article on chapel cars in Trains - I'm now thinking it appeared after 2000 . . .
http://books.google.com/books?pg=PA1&id=7doEAAAAYAAJ#v=onepage&q=&f=true
or
http://books.google.com/books?id=7doEAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA4&output=text
We recognize, however, that there are some people who cannot appreciate music. Moody could enjoy the words of a song, but he had great difficulty in distinguishing the tune of sacred music from the tune of Yankee Doodle. Some are like the banker who was attending a Wagner concert with a soapmaker. "Every man," said the banker, "wants to do something outside of his own work." "Yes," answered the soapmaker, "I always wanted to be a banker." "You wouldn't be a good one. I am a successful banker, but I always wanted to write a book. And now here is this man Wagner who tries his hand at music. Just listen to the stuff. And yet we all know he builds good parlor cars."
...and if you are looking for a first person account of living/working on a Chapel car you should read
A Church on Wheels or Ten Years on a Chapel Car - Rev. C.H. Rust - American Baptist Publication society 1905
Mechanical Department "No no that's fine shove that 20 pound set all around the yard... those shoes aren't hell and a half to change..."
The Missabe Road: Safety First
The journal Railroad History has a very long article on the cars and the evolution of the idea for the cars pp. 7-76 Spring 1998
According to the article there were 13 Chapel cars that plied the rails in the U.S. from 1890 to 1946. (There were also a number of earlier churches on wheels but these were regular passenger cars that had been pressed into service). Of the cars specifically built to be churches on wheels Grace and St.Paul survive intact and there are pieces of several others in various churches across the U.S. As of the 1998 article the decaying shell of Messenger of Peace still existed on the Olympic Peninsula.
Paul;
Thanks for the links. As reviously mentioned, I had never heard of this particular type of car or how they operated. It is facinating to read of their place and role in the growth of the railroads and the country as it moved west and south. Rev. Walrath's account is very illuminating as to how these cars were operated, funded and moved about the various railroads.
I wondered how the expenses for transport were worked out and this was explained (in part) in this clip out of the Reverend's story<linked below>;
GOD RIDES THE RAILS CHAPEL CARS ON THE NATIONS RAILROADSby The Rev. Harry R. Walrath, M. Div
linked here: http://www.frontiertrails.com/oldwest/chapel.html
"...The story of free travel for Chapel Cars is best seen in the arrangement made for the Baptist cars. First, many members of the Syndicate were connected with the railroads. Though, "there was neither promise nor mention of the fact that their influence would assure passage." Uncle Boston carefully described how the Chapel Car Evangel would be used and Mr. William Mellen, General manager of the Northern Pacific Railroad issued the following order(emphasis mine): "You will pass Mr. Boston W. Smith and one attendant with Chapel Car Evangel over our lines. You will arrange to take the car on any train he desires; you will sidetrack it wherever he wishes. Make it as pleasant for Mr. Smith as you can." Such an order no doubt accounts for the success of early missionary work in the Pacific Northwest where the Northern Pacific would have trackage. And no doubt other railroads followed suite, so as not to be out done by the Northern Pacific. It is interesting to note that neither the Episcopal car nor the Roman Catholic Cars make any mention of paying mileage on any of the lines that they traveled. The possibility that the precedent of free mileage for chapel cars may have already been established by the Episcopal car and firmed up by the Baptist cars. That the Roman Catholic cars were the beneficiaries of this policy especially in view of the fact that they didn't enter the scene until 1907 makes me believe that the courtesy of free trackage was extended to all Chapel Cars irrespective of denomination. It 16. certainly was not to the advantage of the railroads to provide free passage. The cost of Evangel's maiden voyage alone would have cost $.54 per mile or in 1891 dollars, $1,080.00. That the religious persuasion of the railroad executives being well known undoubtedly made free passage possible. The free passage provided Evangel apparently was to be extended to all subsequent chapel cars whether Baptist, Roman Catholic, or Episcopalian..."
From http://www.pullman-museum.org/theCompany/chapelCarMovement.html -
If you would like to learn more about the chapel car movement, there are 2 books published about the subject:
For more info on those 2 books, see - http://www.chapelcars.com/book.html
Supposedly This Train is Bound for Glory was reviewed in the December 1999 issue of Trains.
Still looking for that article . . .
I think I have heard of Chapel cars on trolley lines, especially those which would be in line to carry funeral mourners from a downtown church or funeral parlor to a more remote cemetary, the casket being in the baggage compartment of the car or an adjoining car. Sometimes these cars were just made up for the occasion, too.
Francis Clement Kelley (1870-1948), Bishop of Oklahoma and founder of the Catholic Church Extension Society of the United States, wrote
"From the crowd a picture came, in a flash of memory, of my first visit to Chicago, in the year of my ordination, eighteen ninety-three. I had gone there to catch a glimpse of the World's Fair before receiving an appointment. From one World's Fair came the flash of another, St . Louis. The crowd again, and then, something I had seen—a car, a Chapel Car in the railroad exhibit placed there by a Baptist missionary society. I had examined that car, and remembered talking with some man about it. That man had the history of Chapel Cars at his fingers' ends. The original Chapel Car, he said, was that of Pius IX. It was used on the Pope's train when he traveled about the Papal States. The Russians put the idea to missionary use on the Trans-Siberian Railroad. An American Bishop of the Anglican Church—Walker, I think was his name—saw this Chapel Car in Siberia, and had one built like it for his work in Minnesota. He called it "The Cathedral Car." John D. Rockefeller took over the idea for the Baptists. The Anglican car was never a success, but a Baptist fleet of cars was. I remembered thinking at the time what excellent work could be done in scattered places along the railroad lines with a Catholic Chapel Car."
http://www.pullman-museum.org/main/14.I.f.jpg St. Paul
http://www.pullman-museum.org/main/14.I.b.jpg St. Anthony
http://content.library.luc.edu/u?/coll2,3 St. Anthony interior
http://content.library.luc.edu/u?/coll2,37 St. Paul interior
http://content.library.luc.edu/u?/coll2,36 St. Paul interior
There was at least one article in Trains about 10 - 20 years ago on this kind of car. Unfortunately, I can't quickly find it in the "Index to Magazines" this morning. I'll keep looking - either there or in my stack of copies - have patience. In the meantime, I did find the articles below. There's a fair chance I have the 1st 2 issues of the NMRA Bulletin, too.
The Baptist Assembly in beautiful and scenic Green Lake, Wisconsin, maintains a gorgeous and very challenging golf course called Lawsonia.
http://lawsonia.com/lawsonia.com/index.html
On the golf course you can see a chapel car "Grace" -- I have not seen it in years but it was a stunning sight to come across it during a golf round. And by the way in keeping with the ownership of the course and nearby resort and conference center -- no alcohol is served at the club house. But they have great sandwiches. Anyone interested in chapel cars, golf, fishing, and relaxation (and contemplation and Baptist worship of course) should check out the Baptist Assembly.
http://glcc.org/glcc/index.htm
Dave Nelson
Recently, I purchased an old issue of the TRAIN SHED CYCLOPEDIA (#42) from Newton K. Gregg(publishing) it is a selection from the 1919 Car Builders Dictionary and Cyclopedia (9th);Roy V. Bright,ed. Simons-Boardman Publising.
Fig 333 was a photo of an 85' steel passenger car, buildr was Barney and Smith Car Co. The car was lettered for the American Baptist Publication Society (GRACE(?)) and fig. 334 was an interior shot of a car belonging to the Catholic Church Extention Society.
I was blown away in all my years of modeling, reading and railfanning, I had never seen or heard of this aspect of the American experience regarding trains, railroading and religion. I thought that this topic would be worthy of linking here.
Hereis a link to a lengthy article about the Chapel Cars in America:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0NXG/is_3_38/ai_111014967/?tag=content;col1
Here is a link to some photos of various cars and brief historical remarks; CHAPEL CARS OF AMERICA;
http://www.chapelcars.com/
another interesting link to some the history of such Chapel Cars:
Chapel cars are a unique niche in American railroading history; I hope some others will enjoy as well.
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