Oh ok. Well I'll still be here. Oh and this weekend got another big train scheduled to go to Hugoton, with 6 or 7 units again. MIght be real close to 100 cars this time. Possibly 85-90 loads. I am scheduled to take this train out there. I hope not, would love to get sum pics of my own. But the boss don't let anybody else handle the big ones like this. There are other engineers that can do it but he wants me to. Update tomorrow. Later, Dru
Dru, I worked on the Garden City rd switcher for five months last yr just so I could have wknds off for football season. I did make a daytrip drive south to checkout your rr, didn't see anything going on but did snap some pics of tied up engs @ Santana. In order to stay qualified and to have wknds off this fall again, I may head back out west and perhaps make another drive to CVR country. Here in Wichita, the Kansas & Oklahoma transfers shuttle trains w/ BNSF which load at the DeBruce elevator west of town. For those of you in the area and may have forgotten, this is the elevator which suffered a major explosion in June, 1998 and killed six people. After rebuilding, this remains the only terminal at Wichita that can handle 110-115 car shuttles.
yea, they mustve changed it out because it is all 110 pound from Satanta to Dodge now. Well with the traffic pattern shift that has occurred in the last year. Our highest tonnage route is now to Hugoton from Satanta. We still do send some loaded grain cars to Dodge per customer order. But with the grain shuttles running on that 90 pound rail, it is really taking its toll on the track. I remember just before they starting running them, Satanta to Hugoton was in fantastic shape except for a couple of spots. Now, the whole thing is pretty rough. They won't even get out and run the tamper. They are doing customer tracks now and not doing anything about the mainline. They started back in October on the tie replacement project at Dodge and made it west to MP26(Montezuma), then they stopped because the ground was getting to hard to replace them. But that is all they're doing. They have put no new ballast on or even tamped it. All they're going to do is tear them up because its not being taken care of when replaced. They are wanting to put in all 93000 ties before they get any ballast trains out here. They have a crew of maybe 10 guys running 8 machines. No tamper or regulator, we have to do that. So there for, it ain't going to get done anytime soon. It pisse* everyone off that they aren't doing this because we know how things get fixed and completed here. I will tell Henry you said hi. But I need to know your name so he will know who you are. I just can't say mudchicken says hi.
Laters, Dru
favuprailroadfan I will agree on the ballast sub roadbed thing. But where he is wrong is this. The entire Satanta to Dodge City line is 110 to 112 pound rail. West of Satanta is all 90 pound rail all the way to Boise City. But the Manter Sub, line to Springfield. From Satanta to Johnson, it is all 85 pound rail, then it goes to 90 pound rail the rest of the way. All of the webber joints are pretty much Manter west to Springfield so I don't see how the KS side could love them. The state is kicking in some money but not alot. So granted, its some money, not alot, its better than nothing.
I will agree on the ballast sub roadbed thing. But where he is wrong is this. The entire Satanta to Dodge City line is 110 to 112 pound rail. West of Satanta is all 90 pound rail all the way to Boise City. But the Manter Sub, line to Springfield. From Satanta to Johnson, it is all 85 pound rail, then it goes to 90 pound rail the rest of the way. All of the webber joints are pretty much Manter west to Springfield so I don't see how the KS side could love them. The state is kicking in some money but not alot. So granted, its some money, not alot, its better than nothing.
The Webbers are gone east of Johnson because Mssr.s Beggs, Jones, Hernandez, Campos,Mondragon, Hanson, Goodall, myself and a few others spent 20+ years getting rid of them a little at a time, concentrating on the higher tonnage end. I was around when the 110# rail found its way to between Dodge City and Copeland when Roadmasters Jamieson & Hernandez put it in (It came from Texas via Newton, nobody else really wanted it. Another 4 miles went up on the AV District.). I don't think the ATSF laid much of that 112# rail unless that happened between '88 and '94, although Satanta to Dodge always had the higher tonnage. (Say Hello! to Henry H, the former Middle Division conductor who lived on the locals out there)
I live next to a short line and they are usually running loaded grain units and other manifest trains about once a day, and returning later in the middle of the night.
You mentioned the town of Johnson and that brought back memories. My dad used to live there for a few years and we have some good family friends that live there. I have been there a few times.
Will
again - The problem is not the rail, more like what it's sitting on. It (deficient subgrade and ballast structure) is speeding up decay of the rail and the other infrastructure. Kansas puts its $$$ where the need is greatest or most immediate. CVR isn't there yet. Fortunately, CVR has few major bridges to worry about in that 260+ miles of railroad and is related to a track construction contractor. There are only two big bridges, one SW of Santanta and another east of Ulysses. Santa Fe kept rebuilding bridges on the Manter and Boise City lines in a planned program right to the end of their ownership. Until recently (and possibly still) there was 1913-1926 vintage ties and bridge timbers still out there. It's dry enought that timber last longer there if you can manage the moisture in the roadbed.
Try running that tonnage on 54# rail and see what happens. It's still being done about 200 miles west of this railroad.
All the CVR people have to do to see what their railroad could be like is look at the connecting railroad at Springfield CO and Boise City OK looks . Before 1978, BNSF's Boise City District (Las Animas Jcn. - Springfield -Boise City - Amarillo) was of the same construction and condition. (Powder River Coal business paid for that upgrade and now handles ALL of the BNSF Texas bound coal loads headed south out of Denver to Amarillo)
90 pound jointed nearly 100 years old....even I realize that is not good for 100 loads of grain. Sounds like the old branchline thru my hometown (IC - Mattoon to Evansville). It slowly faded away. At the end Indiana Hi Rail attempted to run 80 - 100 car coke trains (!) at 5mph.
So, can this type of operation support the maintenance required? Or is this a state program for rehab?
This tends to be a systemic problem of shortlines. Ride out the deferred maintenance for 10 years until there is nothing left.
Ed
He is out there on 160 + 96 (109 .6 miles if he went to Pritchett) miles of former Santa Fe "Cimarron Cuttoff " branchline in Kansas, Colorado & Oklahoma, laid out in a flat wye configuration. Most of the railroad is 90# jointed rail on 8 foot ties. The rail was largely rolled between 1913 and 1926 and had some 110# and 112# rail cascaded into the upper sections between Satanta and Dodge City. 30 MPH is all the faster it has ever been since I first saw it in 1981 when it was old ATSF Colorado Division. The original ballast was all cinders and did not see much conventional ballast until the late 1970's. Santa Fe had plans to upgrade the lines, but they were always the first victims of budget cuts.
It badly needed to see a rail sled or undercutter when I first saw it in the 1980's, still does. Until the cinders are bladed or cut out, the ballast is nothing more than a sugar coated band-aid. It still suffers from a split identity from pre-1963 maintenance differences between two divisions (The old ATSF Western/Middle and Colorado divisions). The Kansas side loved open decked bridges and webber joints. The lines were built to main line/ heavy haul standards and went into decline after WW2 and abandonment of the Cimmarron Cuttoff (Farley, NM to Colmor, NM never got built with the line shrinking back to Boise City/Felt OK by 1960)..The lines did effectively cut off Rock Island's attempt to go to Trinidad, CO from Liberal that they gave up on by 1950 (two grangers could not survive out there....MKT/BM&E also died on the vine out there...It got to Keyes, OK and connected with what is now CVR)
Is the state of Kansas paying for the rehab? Pretty nice deal if you can get it, particularly with those kind of volumes.
One of our sister shortlines, the Southwestern out of Carlsbad NM. They have excess locos sitting down there doing nothing while we need power. This is part of my problem with this company
Track condition. Well to put it to you bluntly. It SUCKS. Maximum speed is 10 mph. But we in the middle of a track rebuild program, ok, its more like a band aid but itll help us get back to 25mph. Most of the shuttles are wheat but we are starting to move more milo. We actually have moved 2 trains of corn out. This was the first time in 30 years, that Stevens county has shipped OUT corn. Volume has been like this for almost a year now, and its forecast to increase more. Yes, they are moving grain to free up space, but its moving out very quickly when it gets to Hugoton. Most of the milo is going to Mexico, and the wheat goes where ever. I'd say about 75% percent of the wheat goes to the Gulf Coast. I'm going to hop on a soapbox here. We are a 240 mile railroad. All mileage is in service and sees service regularly, we have 8 locomotives, 8 guys in train service, 3 mechanics, and 4 in our office. We have 9 track guys and 1 Road Foreman. This is what we use to keep things running. But it seems to me that our home office in Ogden Utah are too tight with money to let us get some more locomotives, hire more help, and get the equipment we need to get things moving even more efficiently than what it already is. The owner has been out here 1 time since he bought in 1996. He don't care about what happens to us, as long as we keep filling his pockets with profit, he ain't going to let any of it go. Yes, I know i shouldn't be talking like this, since I am an employee.Most everybody has this same sentiment. Even the boss agrees with me on most of this. But there isn't anything we can do about it. We'll just keep going about our everyday business until that one day when we end up derailing one of BNSF's new ES44DC's because of track conditions. Then maybe the owner will get one mean nasty wake up call to pay attention to 1 of his 5 railroads. Keep the replies and questions guys. I'll be glad to answer them.
Laters, Dru Engineer CVR
Nice report.
What condition are the tracks in? What is the speed restriction on the line? Is it mainly wheat which is handled thru the shuttles?
Is your volume like this year around, or are they moving grain in order to free up elevator space?Ed
The definition of short lines varies so much within both the railroad business and the railfan community. Some short lines have but one 1000 or less horsepower locomotive and will most often handle as few a one car at a time; other shortlines may be up to 90 miles long and have 100 car trains. Some are common carriers, some are industrial or private switching roads, some totally independent while others are just one of many in a conglamorate or group; some operate a half day a week while others are 24/7. No, not all short lines are alike and probably not one resembles another at all!
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Back when DM&E was not part of CP and considered the longest short line in the country, the vast majority of the trains around here were in the 120 car range. Not such much now with since the ecomony tanked.
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It never GOES WEST of johnson but we do bring that much back occasionally. If we pull 15 loads out of Walsh, 54 loads out of Bartlett, 16 loads out of Saunders, 52 loads out of Manter and 26 loads out of Johnson. Most of the time its 30 out of Bartlett, 8 out of Saunders, 20 out of Manter, 26 out of Johnson. This is about a twice a week thing. Sometimes more, sometimes less, all depends on if all the cars make it back from Hugoton in time. 85% percent of the loads that come from Johnson and elevators west go to Hugoton to be dumped and then reloaded into BNSF grain shuttles that we run in from Dodge City. We have had 5 shuttles in the last 2 weeks just for Hugoton alone. That doesn't include the 2 grain and 3 fertilizer shuttles we brougt in for Ensign. Last time we went west of Walsh is when I went and got the last of the 104 mty ethanol tanks we had in storage for BNSF. That was about 2 months ago. We no longer go to Pritchett, the line has been torn up. BNSF removed the switch that we used to go out there at Springfield. As the CVR goes, we never went out there. Been operating since 1996. 100 plus car trains are the norm out here. Most trains that come in from off the Johnson line(Manter Sub) are right around 50 to 60 cars. But we do have that big one every now and then. Just like today, the Dodge City train went out with 5 units and 93 cars. 70 loads and the rest empties. Since I'm going back to Hugoton tomorrow, I will probably be around 80 cars plus when I get back to Satanta. We do run big trains with our 5 GP30's 1 GP30M, and our 2 GP26's. Our other GP30 is back in the shop. One of its contacters melted down, so it'll be in there a few days.
There are quite a few 'short lines' that handle unit coal and grain trains to their consignees at various destination points.
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(1) That tonnage never goes west of Johnson.
(2) When's the last time your outfit ever: (a) went west of Walsh or (b) got to Pritchett?
Your fellow Kansas grangers K&O, Kyle and NKCR get some healthy trains and Apache gets some big trains on occasion. (Just saw a 105 car drag freight on Kyle west of P'Burg 10 days ago pulled by 3 SD's and a GP49m....
This is a pretty cut and dry question. Who thinks that all a short line does is run short trains with just 1 or 2 units and maybe 15 to 25 cars? If you have any short lines that don't. Let me know who it is. Thanks, Dru. Engineer Cimarron Valley Railroad.
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