Break checks @ Gallitzin, PA

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

I bought that same trip in DVD format last November; as I recall, they had to go back and re-shoot the portion going around Horseshoe Curve on a different day, because the view to the inside and across was blocked by a coal train, or similar.  Anyway, I only vaguely recall that segment - I was paying more attention to the tracks that the Amtrak train was on, and the approaching summit tunnels.  Perhaps if I take Weds. off account pending snowstorm, I'll watch it again and take better note of that segment.

- Paul North.

[Modelcar]

Paul_D_North_Jr

As Carl noted, there used to be a siren or Klaxon horn set-up on 'The Slide', which is Track 1 3 [fixed later] from AR to 'Benny'.  I'm having trouble finding the reference to that right now; NS may have abolished that system.  If I can find even the ConRail 'Special Instructions' for same

I have a video that was done some years ago with the camera fixed in the windshield of an Amtrak engine.  It is continous from Huntingdon to Johnstown, Pa.....And over near the summit the engineer made a comment about the Klaxon horns....He said an eastbound train had to be under a certain speed passing a certain point to start downgrade, east side, and if not, a series of Klaxon horns would start blasting, and the engineer needed to get his train under control, etc.....If not, he was in a dire situation to get under control.....as any further along with too much speed,  would be too late. 

I haven't watched my video now for some years {don't even have a tape deck set up anymore, but in general the above words {paraphrased}, was what he was implying.

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

Yes, 'The Slide' is on Track 1, not 3 - my mistake , thanks for the catch.  I went back and fixed my previous post, too.

Here's the reference to that Trains article: 

Mountain Railroad Revisited
Trains, January 1985 page 24
Conrail still puts 50-plus trains a day over the Alleghenies
( CR, DIVISION, "FRAILEY, FRED W.", HORSESHOE, PRR, TRN )

- Paul North.

[chatanuga]

Paul_D_North_Jr

As Carl noted, there used to be a siren or Klaxon horn set-up on 'The Slide', which is Track 3 from AR to 'Benny'.  I'm having trouble finding the reference to that right now; NS may have abolished that system.  If I can find even the ConRail 'Special Instructions' for same, I'll post either them or a link for the general edification of the audience here.*

Isn't the Slide on track 1?

The siren was on the slide back in the mid-80s according to the Trains story.

Kevin

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

Certain eastward trains there - but apparently not general freights or unit coal trains - are required to stop, regardless of the Track they are on, and hence the grade of that track.  From the Aug. 4, 2008 NS Employee Time Table, page 76 [emphasis added - PDN], at -

http://blet73.org/Pittsburgh_Division_Timetable.pdf 

F. AIR BRAKE INSTRUCTION

All Intermodal (TOFC/COFC), Triple Crown, Multi-Level trains operating east on the Pittsburgh Line between AR/UN and Alto will stop prior to descending the grade for the purpose of setting the air brakes. All other trains known to have experienced an undesired emergency brake application will be required to stop prior to descending the grade for the purpose of setting the brakes.

After initial stop is made, crew will wait two (2) minutes before applying the automatic brake. The purpose is to assure that all slack has settled and the air has stabilized throughout the train.

Where trains have rear helpers attached, the hauling Engineer will not begin his two (2) minute wait until he has ascertained that the rear helper is stopped.

From pages 73 and 74, if a train's locomotives do not have the required number of dynamic braking axles and the pressure-maintaining air brake feature - or in some other special circumstances - the air brake pressure 'retainers' on each car are required to be 'turned up' on the specified number of cars.  That means the conductor would have to 'walk the train' for at least that many cars to do that - hence the train would have to be stopped for him/ her to perform that task. 

Also from page 74: 

6. Enginemen of eastward passenger trains will make a running test before passing UN/AR. 

Per the table on page 73, for the 1.1 miles rom UN/AR to SF (almost Bennington Curve), all freight trains are limited to a maximum speed of 12 MPH; those over 100 Tons Per Operable Brake (''TPOB'') are further limited to 8 MPH; and - also from page 74 -

4. Average tons per operative brake must not exceed 140 tons.

As Carl noted, there used to be a siren or Klaxon horn set-up on 'The Slide', which is Track 1 3 [fixed later] from AR to 'Benny'.  I'm having trouble finding the reference to that right now; NS may have abolished that system.  If I can find even the ConRail 'Special Instructions' for same, I'll post either them or a link for the general edification of the audience here.*

The NS ETT above indicates that the grade on 'The Slide' is 2.36 %; elsewhere on the East Slope, it varies from 1.39 % to 1.85 %.

- Paul North. 

*EDIT:  It was called the ''OVERSPEED WARNING SYSTEM''.  Since the 'PDF' version I found on-line apparently won't 'copy and paste' - and I don't have enough time to re-type it verbatim - the only reference for it that I can find at the moment is on page P-18 [20 of 82 of the 'PDF' version] of ConRail's Pittsburgh Division ETT for System TT No. 5 effective July 1, 1997 at -

http://www.multimodalways.org/docs/railroads/companies/CR/CR%20ETTs/CR%20ETT%20Pgh%20%235%207-1-1997.pdf 

[CShaveRR]

Many years ago, Trains had an article about the curve, in which the procedure for bringing a train down the hill was described. I don't know whether a stop was mandated, but if you exceeded a set speed by a certain point, alarms would sound. (And, from the experience of a welded-rail train that was mentioned in the article, it was already too late by that point.)

Every commuter train on our line makes a running brake test at the start of every run, in spite of the fact that it's the same consist each time, and the trains aren't made up at those particular locations.

[edbenton]

Simple why would you check brakes easy to LOSE CONTROL ON A GRADE LIKE THAT.  Ever been out west say on I-80 and seen a spot that says Brake check area ALL TRUCKS MUST STOP.  Well that is the same idea.  I-80 has one right before Parley pass in Utah going towards Salt Lake City.  There are more on I-70 heading ver Ike and Vail there is one on I-24 over Mount Eagle on I-40 over Black Mountian I can list more if you want.  If you screw up on a mountain with even 40 tons your in trouble let alone with 10-14 THOUSAND tons that is MILLIONS OF LBS that can get out of control.  Why do you think Sandpatch is CLOSED RIGHT NOW.  Bad weather wet rail heavy load made worse by SNOW on top and wet coal also overloaded the brakes might of had frozen a few next thing that Engineer knew he was saying Oh Crap and then he or She did that in their PANTS. 

 

Try this scenrio one time.  Your a OTR trainer with a trainee that is in his last month of training which means that he is able to drive with you getting some sleep.  Well your in the back sleeping all of a sudden you hear the engine unload and the Trainee scream we are all going to DIE.  This happened to ME in 2000.  I got out of the Bunk just in a T-shirt and skivies pulled the trainee out of the seat jumped in saw we were doing 90+ down a 7% grade in NEUTRAL I stood on the brakes and prayed like heck that they would slow us to a point I could get a freaking gear.  I got us slowed down to 40 grabbed 6th gear and threw the jakes on as hard as they would go.  I then looked in the mirrors and saw that I could be killing every Mosquito in the State of Louisanna that ever lived.  I had smoke coming from my steer axle both drive axles and not to mention my trailer.  Get to the bottom of the hill pulled into the local Truck Stop and told the Trainee get his CRAP OUT OF MY TRUCK.  I then grabbed my Qualcom and messaged The Saftey Director and Personal Manager and my Dispatcher as to this trainees actions on Parlee.  He was fired on the spot told to go to the Greyhound station and pick up his ticket there.  He instead went to drive for CR. England instead. 

[wabash1]

BT CPSO 266

wabash1

LOL why would they check the brakes they did a class 1 initial brake test and inspection at initial terminal,

 

 

What else would they be doing?

LOL Back a few post he said they stop to get food at the quick stop. maybe a few lottery tickets...and a newspaper  for the crossword puzzel. ROFLAC

[BT CPSO 266]

wabash1

LOL why would they check the brakes they did a class 1 initial brake test and inspection at initial terminal,

 

 

What else would they be doing?

[wabash1]

LOL why would they check the brakes they did a class 1 initial brake test and inspection at initial terminal,

[chatanuga]

blue streak 1

Does the AMTRAK eastbound Pennsylvanian also stop for a brake check? Or is the power t trailing tonnage such that a check is not required?

 

When I was staying there at the Tunnel Inn back in 2003 and 2004, Amtrak did not stop when heading eastbound through Gallitzin.  Likewise, I don't think Triple Crown trains did either.

In 2003 when I was there, I did see one crew take advantage of the brake test before they continued east.  The locomotives came to a stop just west of the Jackson Street bridge.  The conductor got off, headed into the convenience store at the gas station there, grabbed some food, and then got back on.

Kevin

[BT CPSO 266]

joho2486

Sometimes (if the train doesn't have a helper) the train's conductor will call the dispatcher to have him or her punch in the 5-digit EOT device and see if the brakes are working.

 

I don't understand? You mean they don't check the brakes themselves?

 

So I guess even if they didn't have to go around bennington they would still have to check their brakes? If you are wondering what other option there is, I was think if they cut through the mountain that the mainline has to curve around starting at bennington; and just have a straight shoot to Allegrippus. I was not sure if it would improve time or not. 

[BT CPSO 266]

blue streak 1

Does the AMTRAK eastbound Pennsylvanian also stop for a brake check? Or is the power t trailing tonnage such that a check is not required?

 

I have never noticed Amtrak to do brake checks going down Track 1 or 2.

 

[blue streak 1]

Does the AMTRAK eastbound Pennsylvanian also stop for a brake check? Or is the power t trailing tonnage such that a check is not required?

[Modelcar]

Extreme caution used on that down grade......Believe the slope {slide}, is about 3%.....and in general, the remaining east grade is 1.8%....drops to 1.45% around Horseshoe and then resumes the 1.8% down to the Altoona area. 

[BaltACD]

Dispatchers have nothing to do with EOT's beyond, possibly, keeping record of the EOT number that each train has.

I am not familiar with NS operation practices, however, they may be initiating a emergency application from the EOT as a test of the 2-way EOT, prior to decent of the grade.

[wabash1]

joho2486

It's in general.  I've been up there many times and eastbounds on both tracks stop.  I think it's more of a tonnage limit than the grade itself (I don't have the figure in my head), though the East Slope is a bit steeper than the West.  Sometimes (if the train doesn't have a helper) the train's conductor will call the dispatcher to have him or her punch in the 5-digit EOT device and see if the brakes are working.  If the brake test goes well, the train then can go down the mountain.  If you like, you can listen to the feed for the West Slope of the Pittsburgh Line.  Search it on RailroadRadio or The Station Inn in Cresson, PA.  It's a bit quiet tonight thanks to the winter storm that has put over 2' of snow on the ground in Maryland, Northern VA, and Southeastern PA, but it's pretty active 24/7.

Josh

Really when did dispatchers get HOT devices? and just what are dispatchers looking for when they punch in the EOT? How far Does the EOT transmit?

[joho2486]

It's in general.  I've been up there many times and eastbounds on both tracks stop.  I think it's more of a tonnage limit than the grade itself (I don't have the figure in my head), though the East Slope is a bit steeper than the West.  Sometimes (if the train doesn't have a helper) the train's conductor will call the dispatcher to have him or her punch in the 5-digit EOT device and see if the brakes are working.  If the brake test goes well, the train then can go down the mountain.  If you like, you can listen to the feed for the West Slope of the Pittsburgh Line.  Search it on RailroadRadio or The Station Inn in Cresson, PA.  It's a bit quiet tonight thanks to the winter storm that has put over 2' of snow on the ground in Maryland, Northern VA, and Southeastern PA, but it's pretty active 24/7.

Josh

[BT CPSO 266]

Stupid question.

When I go rail-fanning up at Gallitzin, PA; I always notice that the eastbound trains stop at AR Tower or just before they enter the Allegheny Tunnel. I assume they are doing break checks.

Now I can see why trains going through the New Portage Tunnel must do these checks, because they go down "the slide" straight into bennington curve; Track 2 eastbound trains only have to go around bennington curve.

Do they have to do these break checks just because of Bennington Curve and the slide or is it the whole east slope in general?