Florida High Speed Rail Repeal Referendum

[overall]

I have been following this subject as well as I can from where I live in Tennessee. I don't get much Florida news up here, so I was wanting to get some input from those of you who live in Florida and are thus closer to this situation.

What are the chances that the Florida High Speed Rail Law will survive Governer Jeb Bush's referendum? Good? Bad? Really bad?

I know that the move to repeal the first referendum passed by the voters in 2000 is being led by Jeb Bush and some of his associates, How well organized is our side in all this situation? Is our side any match for their side?

What do you think is Jeb Bush's motivation to take his valuable time to try to overturn the 2000 referendum? Do you think it is his close ties to the oil industry?Do you think he has some good reason for doing this?

I guess you have realized by now that I have a ( surprise! ) pro-train, pro-high speed rail bias. I badly want to see the passenger train succeed in the roles where it does make sense i.e. commuter, high speed, "cruise" luxury excursion etc. I take it really personal when someone in power fights a train service merely to enrich a client of their own, if that is what is going on here. It makes me mad. I guess you could say that I love this stuff too much.

I have a lot of admiration for Jeb's brother the president. I will probably vote for him again. I'd just give anything ( even my prize 2343 Lionel Santa Fe diesel ) if both of them would back those train services that are obviously needed.

Anyway folks, I await your replies. I think this is the best board of it's kind on the web because of the very thoughtful and intelligent people who post articles here.

Thanks in advance

George

[Modelcar]

....I don't think you will see any of the Bush's voting to enhance any passenger rail functions any way soon...Have not heard any later news on that high speed situation in Florida where Jeb indicates he now wants to stop it....as he did before several years ago. Bush's only climb on passenger trains when it is time to campaign.

[Anonymous]

I wi***hey would build it I support rail everywhere.

[overall]

Here is a link to the Florida High Speed rail website;

http://www.floridabullettrain.com/

It would seem that this effort is pretty well organized.

George

[Anonymous]

The Florida High-Speed Rail issue should never have been on the ballot in the first place. Its backers never informed the voters of the truth about it - namely, that it would forever be a drain on the taxpayers of Florida and would never come close to paying for itself. Reason: No public transportation entity in the world makes money without having its hand in the taxpayers' pocket unless it provides some sort of premium service for which it could extract the utmost fare possible. Two examples come to mind - a taxicab company which offers door-to-door service (and still doesn't pay for the streets it uses) and a cruise ship line, which is not really in the business of transportation.

The reason for this is that no one will pay for his transportation what it's worth. You wouldn't use Amtrak if they had to cover all their costs out of fares; you couldn't afford to fly if airlines had to do the same thing.

The Florida High-Speed rail needs to die the death it deserves. There may, traffic-wise, be a need for it, but the Florida and the US taxpayer need to know just how much it'll cost them. They've never been told.

Sorry, guys. Jeb's right on this one.

[Wdlgln005]

No state has the billions required to build a high speed passenger train. The feds MUST be as involved as they are in any other transit project.

Everybody knows what it will take to do this. but nobody wants to make a commitment to do it. what we need is a new group of progressive leaders not tied into the liberal/conservative debate or the air & highway lobby.
I get sick at watching senators complain about billlions & billions spent on highways, airports & airlines & nothing spent on rail.

[Modelcar]

Respectfully Oldtimer....Anyone who has traveled much in Florida..[I've spent 8 winters there], can recognize the need for some help in transportation....and the overcrowding can and will only get worse in certain areas and it seems to be coming on fast. So someone must come up with a solution before it stalls into total quagmire on the transportation lanes. Just saying no and stopping high speed rail without an alternitive doesn't seem much of an answer.

[jsanchez]

That is not true the Bush adminstration is spending a lot of money to enhance passenger train service in Iraq, you'd think with cheap oil becoming a thing of the past and the high population growth due to unlimted immigration, some of the politicians would see the wisdom of developing highspeed rail in the USA. It is not going to be any cheaper t do it 20 years from now...

QUOTE: Originally posted by Modelcar

....I don't think you will see any of the Bush's voting to enhance any passenger rail functions any way soon...Have not heard any later news on that high speed situation in Florida where Jeb indicates he now wants to stop it....as he did before several years ago. Bush's only climb on passenger trains when it is time to campaign.

[BaltACD]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Modelcar

Respectfully Oldtimer....Anyone who has traveled much in Florida..[I've spent 8 winters there], can recognize the need for some help in transportation....and the overcrowding can and will only get worse in certain areas and it seems to be coming on fast. So someone must come up with a solution before it stalls into total quagmire on the transportation lanes. Just saying no and stopping high speed rail without an alternitive doesn't seem much of an answer.

The Bush's, both W and Jeb, have their head stuck so far up the oil and highway construction lobby's postier that they don't even know what rail looks like.

The major traffic corridors in Florida are a virtual gridlock and most are in need of major reconstruction just to stay at gridlock. The highway lobby is targeting every community that is not on the short list of communities being served and whipping up opinion against high speed rail.

The reality of any large scale public works project is that not all communities can be served by the project in the first pass, however, the project must start somewhere.

The reality of transportatin east of the Mississippi is that the entire area is a candidate for truly high speed rail. The distances between major metropolitan areas are such that the interstate system is becoming overloaded with traffic. The air traffic control system, as traffic returns to per 9/11 levels will become chaotic and gridlocked. The only underutilized means of transport is then rail. Rail with sustained crusing speeds of 150/175 MPH with a minimum of intermediate stops is time competitive with air and may be even at a time advantage when it is looked at as being from 'busines center' to 'business center', as most airports are located some distance from the business center of the communities they serve.

Rail was the invention of the 19th century. High Speed Rail needs to be the public works project of the first half of the 21st Century.

[jsanchez]

I think the traffic down there is going to start impacting tourism, I know I have cut back on trips to Florida, being stuck on I-4 is no vacation, your right about air traffic gridlock, the FA has asked airlines to cut back on Chicago flights, due to overcrowding at O Harre. Chicago would be a great Highspeed rail hub .

QUOTE: Originally posted by BaltACD

QUOTE: Originally posted by Modelcar

Respectfully Oldtimer....Anyone who has traveled much in Florida..[I've spent 8 winters there], can recognize the need for some help in transportation....and the overcrowding can and will only get worse in certain areas and it seems to be coming on fast. So someone must come up with a solution before it stalls into total quagmire on the transportation lanes. Just saying no and stopping high speed rail without an alternitive doesn't seem much of an answer.

The Bush's, both W and Jeb, have their head stuck so far up the oil and highway construction lobby's postier that they don't even know what rail looks like.

The major traffic corridors in Florida are a virtual gridlock and most are in need of major reconstruction just to stay at gridlock. The highway lobby is targeting every community that is not on the short list of communities being served and whipping up opinion against high speed rail.

The reality of any large scale public works project is that not all communities can be served by the project in the first pass, however, the project must start somewhere.

The reality of transportatin east of the Mississippi is that the entire area is a candidate for truly high speed rail. The distances between major metropolitan areas are such that the interstate system is becoming overloaded with traffic. The air traffic control system, as traffic returns to per 9/11 levels will become chaotic and gridlocked. The only underutilized means of transport is then rail. Rail with sustained crusing speeds of 150/175 MPH with a minimum of intermediate stops is time competitive with air and may be even at a time advantage when it is looked at as being from 'busines center' to 'business center', as most airports are located some distance from the business center of the communities they serve.

Rail was the invention of the 19th century. High Speed Rail needs to be the public works project of the first half of the 21st Century.

[Modelcar]

Yes that 1-4 is a good example of what many are going to look like soon....Especially at time of work traffic coming and going...and jsanchez, you got me on that one...Fully agree with you. The more I read about that in our latest TRAINS the more I was unhappy about spending over there and how they request cuts each fiscal year of our own Passenger rail efforts in this country....How can we get this philosophy changed....Only one way I know of...at least try to....At the ballot box in November.

[jeaton]

Sorry, I don't want to flame an oldtimer, since I am one myself, but pity the poor Florida taxpayer.

1. Florida has no state income tax.

2. My property tax rate is at least twice that of my Florida clients, who may have rates among the lowest in the country.

3. The state sales tax is 6% (food, medicine and most services exempt), about 1% higher than Wisconsin.

I don't have the tax rates on tourist traps, uh, attractions, but I suspect that a good portion of the state revenue is generated there.

Even though my wife and I are on pensions, and may relocate a few years down the road, Florida has been excluded, mainly because Florida taxpayers are to cheap to adequately support vital government services, let alone something as forward thinking as transportation.

Jeb Bush appearantly has been quoting the total cost of the project as opposed to the forecasted amount that would be spent by the Florida taxpayers. Actually, I feel sorry for Jeb, too. Without any taxes to cut, what can he offer Florida voters?

Jay

[Modelcar]

...Poor Jeb.

[jsanchez]

I think if I was Jeb , I would try to get the French, Germans or Japanese to pay for most of it, just so it could be a demonstration project of what can be done with highspeed rail in the USA, also Miami and Jacksonville need to be included, I think it would be a profitable system in the long range, there is definitely the population density now, plus there is very little localized air service between Florida cities. The airlines actually discourage air travel between Florida cities. I tried to travel from Orlando to Pennsacola one time it would have cost around $1,000 round trip , even with advanced reservations.

QUOTE: Originally posted by Modelcar

...Poor Jeb.

[Anonymous]

For anyone to support anyone of the Bush clan. is an idiot!! If you don't love/like the rail industry, STAY THE HELL OUT OF ANY TRAIN OR RAILROAD WEBSITES...PERIOD[:(!]!!
You have some nerve to support anything dealing with the Bush regime(yes regime) and its policies[:o)]!! Plus, any railroader out there that supports these ideals, need to have their damn heads examined[%-)][X-)]!! For all the other railroaders and supporters of the rail industry, I want to apologize to you for my rantings and offer my sincerest thanks to you all for the excellent work we all do in the service of our country and ourselves!!

Glenn
A R E A L RAILROADER...A TRUE AMERICAN!!!